On Sep 16, 10:57*am, Roy Badami wrote:

On 16/09/10 09:59, wrote:

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 09:54:15 +0100
*wrote:

Wrightbus have built a mainly plywood mockup at their factory in

Plywood? Are you sure its a mockup and not a pre-production model?

Just a mockup, the prototypes aren't due until next year. *See the
accompanying article he

http://tinyurl.com/2vt4ezs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mindthega...nboard_for_a_l...

"This mock-up is fully to scale. It's made of plastic, steel and wood
but it lets the designers work out problems."

To do that, surely they need the gaggle of confused punters at the bus
stop, wondering which door they're supposed to use... or the TfL
accountant, head in hands, trying to work out which budget to purloin
the cash from in order to pay for the conductors... or the stressed
police commander, struggling to rota enough PCSOs to staff the rear
platforms...

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 04:05:33 -0700 (PDT)
Mizter T wrote:
began in earnest. Though like much of Boris's manifesto it also seemed
to be born of vague ideas scribbled on wine stained napkins conceived
during blahdy good lunches what ho.

Wouldn't surprise me. I never understood why Boris seemed to think that
anyone outside a few militant foaming at the mouth cyclists was actually
bothered about bendy buses in the first place. Or buses in general. So long
as there are enough of the things and they work , who cares? If anything
I suspect most bus users much prefered just hopping onto a nice spacious
bendy bus rather than squeezing through the front door of a double decker
and up some stairs that no sane granny would ever want to climb.

B2003

On 16/09/10 12:00, Mizter T wrote:

Not too sure about that - the provisional dates for 'de-bendification'
are out there [1], and if it was done it would be something concrete
that Bozza could point at during the re-election campaign to show that
he had 'achieved' something of his manifesto commitments. I think de-
bendification is daft so I'd be quite happy if it was delayed, as any
potential new Mayor would probably not be quite so hung up on bendy
buses, but it might well be a fait accompli by then.

Oh, interesting. I didn't realise that debendification had already
begun. Where are the new buses coming from, then? I had assumed that
the intent was to debendify by replacing the bendy buses with Boris buses...

-roy

On Sep 16, 12:30*pm, wrote:

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 04:05:33 -0700 (PDT)
Mizter T wrote:

began in earnest. Though like much of Boris's manifesto it also seemed
to be born of vague ideas scribbled on wine stained napkins conceived
during blahdy good lunches what ho.

Wouldn't surprise me. I never understood why Boris seemed to think that
anyone outside a few militant foaming at the mouth cyclists was actually
bothered about bendy buses in the first place. [...]

Sorry but I've got to nip that nonsense in the bud straight away -
there has never been a consensus view amongst cyclists at large (or
indeed even 'militant cyclists', woteva they are) that bendy buses are
a bad thing. Some cyclists dislike them, some don't. Just because
Boris is a cyclist and somehow got it into his head that bendy buses
were firebreathing dragons which were slaying cyclists left right and
centre (a concept totally unsupported by the fact, by the way) - that
doesn't mean anything about the opinions of cyclists at large.

I cycle very regularly on roads with bendy buses and don't have any
particular problem with them at all - from a cyclist's POV I don't
really understand the issue that some have with them - like any large
vehicle, I treat them with the appropriate caution - but as ever it's
HGVs that one really has to be wary of. My feeling is that more novice
cyclists are likely to be wary of bendy buses, though I can't help but
feel that some of this wariness is courtesy of Boris' earlier
blatherings about their safety (which seem to have stopped now - I
imagine because the message finally got through that the data simply
doesn't support it).

[...] Or buses in general. So long
as there are enough of the things and they work , who cares? If anything
I suspect most bus users much prefered just hopping onto a nice spacious
bendy bus rather than squeezing through the front door of a double decker
and up some stairs that no sane granny would ever want to climb.

Well, we're back onto familiar ground as to the pro and anti bendy
arguments here!

On Sep 16, 12:31*pm, Roy Badami wrote:

On 16/09/10 12:00, Mizter T wrote:

Not too sure about that - the provisional dates for 'de-bendification'
are out there [1], and if it was done it would be something concrete
that Bozza could point at during the re-election campaign to show that
he had 'achieved' something of his manifesto commitments. I think de-
bendification is daft so I'd be quite happy if it was delayed, as any
potential new Mayor would probably not be quite so hung up on bendy
buses, but it might well be a fait accompli by then.

Oh, interesting. *I didn't realise that debendification had already
begun. *Where are the new buses coming from, then? *I had assumed that
the intent was to debendify by replacing the bendy buses with Boris buses....

Oh no, no, no - you would be very much mistaken in assuming that! The
38 went to conventional double-deckers last November - a rather lot of
conventional double deckers, it should be added, as lots were needed
to cover the demand on the route.

The 'Red Arrow' routes 507 and 521 that were converted in summer '09
were a little different in that they got new non-bendy single deckers
with a high-capacity configuration i.e. lots of standing space, and
were also board either door (i.e. front or back) with Oyster readers
for those boarding at the back - all very similar to the bendy bus
arrangement, except without the extra length, third door and bendy bit
(in fact the buses themselves are Citaros, which is the same make/type
as bendy buses - the replacements are thus rather similar to the
bendies!). To make up for the lost capacity there are again more of
these single deckers out in service.

The 149 and 18 will be converted this autumn, as you can see from the
aforementioned table on Boriswatch - also the timetable for service
changes can be seen on the unofficial London Bus Routes website here -
note the 'x number of new double deckers' comments in the details
column:
http://www.londonbusroutes.net/changes.htm

So lots of new buses are required - it's also worth noting that the
Mayor made a self-imposed deadline that all new buses in service after
1 Jan 2012 are to be hybrids, so given that hybrids are more
expensive, the thinking is that the new conventional diesel buses
needed to replace bendies will be in service beforehand, so as to
sneak in under the wire before that deadline.

On 16 Sep, 13:57, Mizter T wrote:
On Sep 16, 12:30*pm, wrote:

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 04:05:33 -0700 (PDT)
Mizter T wrote:

began in earnest. Though like much of Boris's manifesto it also seemed
to be born of vague ideas scribbled on wine stained napkins conceived
during blahdy good lunches what ho.

Wouldn't surprise me. I never understood why Boris seemed to think that
anyone outside a few militant foaming at the mouth cyclists was actually
bothered about bendy buses in the first place. [...]

Sorry but I've got to nip that nonsense in the bud straight away -
there has never been a consensus view amongst cyclists at large (or
indeed even 'militant cyclists', woteva they are) that bendy buses are
a bad thing. Some cyclists dislike them, some don't. Just because
Boris is a cyclist and somehow got it into his head that bendy buses
were firebreathing dragons which were slaying cyclists left right and
centre (a concept totally unsupported by the fact, by the way) - that
doesn't mean anything about the opinions of cyclists at large.

I cycle very regularly on roads with bendy buses and don't have any
particular problem with them at all - from a cyclist's POV I don't
really understand the issue that some have with them - like any large
vehicle, I treat them with the appropriate caution - but as ever it's
HGVs that one really has to be wary of. My feeling is that more novice
cyclists are likely to be wary of bendy buses, though I can't help but
feel that some of this wariness is courtesy of Boris' earlier
blatherings about their safety (which seem to have stopped now - I
imagine because the message finally got through that the data simply
doesn't support it).

[...] Or buses in general. So long
as there are enough of the things and they work , who cares? If anything
I suspect most bus users much prefered just hopping onto a nice spacious
bendy bus rather than squeezing through the front door of a double decker
and up some stairs that no sane granny would ever want to climb.

Well, we're back onto familiar ground as to the pro and anti bendy
arguments here!

Basically, there seems to be an assumption that bendyness and not
having to go past the driver are exactly the same thing.

I've never understood this.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 05:57:08 -0700 (PDT)
Mizter T wrote:
there has never been a consensus view amongst cyclists at large (or
indeed even 'militant cyclists', woteva they are) that bendy buses are
a bad thing. Some cyclists dislike them, some don't. Just because

I never said it was all cyclists, but there seems to be a vocal minority
on usenet and in the press who dislike them. I can't think of any other
group who whinge to much about bendies so I can only assume it was pressure
from these sorts of people that persuaded Boris to ditch them. Either that
or he just threw a dart at a list of potential election issues and Bendies was
where it landed.

B2003

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:18:27 -0700 (PDT)
Mizter T wrote:
as bendy buses - the replacements are thus rather similar to the
bendies!). To make up for the lost capacity there are again more of
these single deckers out in service.

No doubt with a proportionate rise in pollution.

Have any bendies been sold yet or are they still sitting in a yard somewhere?

B2003

On 16 Sep, 15:05, wrote:
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 05:57:08 -0700 (PDT)

Mizter T wrote:
there has never been a consensus view amongst cyclists at large (or
indeed even 'militant cyclists', woteva they are) that bendy buses are
a bad thing. Some cyclists dislike them, some don't. Just because

I never said it was all cyclists, but there seems to be a vocal minority
on usenet and in the press who dislike them. I can't think of any other
group who whinge to much about bendies so I can only assume it was pressure
from these sorts of people that persuaded Boris to ditch them. Either that
or he just threw a dart at a list of potential election issues and Bendies was
where it landed.

B2003

Can you give an example of a cyclist who does? I am not aware of
any. I don't read cycling forums, but maybe you do. As a pedestrian,
I continue to object to crossings being blocked.

I think it's insane to scrap new buses, but I don't like them and
didn't agree with their introduction.

I think that we have learned something from the experience and that
any new vehicle shouldn't require people to file through a narrow
entry point, but also shouldn't take up as much road space as a bendy
or require the majority of punters to stand.

I don't know if the Borisbus is that. I suspect enough of them will
be built to make it look as if a pledge has been fulfilled, and then
it'll be back to off-the-peg designs.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:13:51 -0700 (PDT)
MIG wrote:
Can you give an example of a cyclist who does? I am not aware of

No, but just go to uk.rec.cycling and mention bendy buses and see the
reaction.

any. I don't read cycling forums, but maybe you do. As a pedestrian,
I continue to object to crossings being blocked.

We're all pedestrians and I can count on 1 hand the number of times I saw a
bendy bus blocking a crossing in all the years I worked in central london.

B2003