On 1 Dec, 00:08, "Graham J" wrote:
The Croydon area seems to have been very badly hit.
...
The weather in the afternoon was much worse than it had been in the
morning

Although we seem to have had five or six inches of snow build up over the
day, rather that the possible 1-2cm that was being forecast on Monday
evening, I wouldn't say the Croydon area has been particularly badly hit
weather wise. *It has just snowed. *It is not like a couple of years ago
when we woke up to nearly a foot of the stuff. *The pavements which had a
lovely layer of fresh snow this morning have got a little more treacherous
in the afternoon as the snow has been trodden down but the roads don't seem
so much worse than they were first thing.

The trouble with Croydon is that it takes very little to gum up the works..
The main roads are very busy at peak periods at the best of times, and a
single closure or diversion on a major road can have a knock on effect a
couple miles away (e.g. the closure of Coombe Road for a few days a while
back was clearly reflected in the level and speed of traffic on the Lower
Addiscombe Road). So even the most modest amount of snow has a major effect.
Once the roads are bunged up the bus network, which is pretty good normally,
is of course stuffed. *Similarly there is an impressive rail service in
Croydon when all is going smoothly, but it is at capacity and it takes very
little to reduce it to chaos.

Croydon has been very bad although the trams kept going.

There were unconfirmed reports of a bus on route 412 having overturned
on Mitchley Hill, anybody know anything about this?

On Dec 1, 12:08*am, "Graham J" wrote:
The Croydon area seems to have been very badly hit.
...
The weather in the afternoon was much worse than it had been in the
morning

Although we seem to have had five or six inches of snow build up over the
day, rather that the possible 1-2cm that was being forecast on Monday
evening, I wouldn't say the Croydon area has been particularly badly hit
weather wise. *It has just snowed. *It is not like a couple of years ago
when we woke up to nearly a foot of the stuff. *The pavements which had a
lovely layer of fresh snow this morning have got a little more treacherous
in the afternoon as the snow has been trodden down but the roads don't seem
so much worse than they were first thing.

When I wrote 'badly hit' I was referring more to the disruption than
to the weather conditions themselves, at least until about 15:00 when
I arrived at East Croydon station. After that it got quite nasty,
with a lot of snowing around in the air, falling temperature and very
poor visibility; certainly not good conditions to be driving on the
roads.

The trouble with Croydon is that it takes very little to gum up the works..
The main roads are very busy at peak periods at the best of times, and a
single closure or diversion on a major road can have a knock on effect a
couple miles away (e.g. the closure of Coombe Road for a few days a while
back was clearly reflected in the level and speed of traffic on the Lower
Addiscombe Road). So even the most modest amount of snow has a major effect.
Once the roads are bunged up the bus network, which is pretty good normally,
is of course stuffed. *Similarly there is an impressive rail service in
Croydon when all is going smoothly, but it is at capacity and it takes very
little to reduce it to chaos.

Between about 14:00 and 15:00 the traffic on the main road was hardly
moving at all. I didn't see it after that, so I don't know how long
this situation lasted. The weather at that time was certainly less
severe in central Croydon than we have seen in the last two years.
Somebody said that it was the same all the way down the Brighton Road
to Coulsdon and Hooley; certainly nothing was moving much when I
arrived at Coulsdon. Of course, the Brighton Road would be carrying a
lot less traffic if the motorway scheme hadn't been cancelled in the
'70s when they decided that demolishing a large area of South London
wasn't a good idea. Given how narrow the Brighton Road is a few
failed or abandoned vehicles would be quite effective at totally
screwing things up, but why the disruption should have been so bad
this yesterday, when the weather was less severe than we have seen in
the last two years isn't yet clear.

but why the disruption should have been
so bad
this yesterday, when the weather was less severe than we have seen in
the last two years isn't yet clear.

I guess it could be something to do with it being unusually cold this time
around. We've had a lot worse weather in the last couple of years but not
accompanied by the freezing / sub-freezing temperatures. The snow seems a
little different this time around too. It seems very fine, dry and powdery
rather than quite big and icy. I couldn't even get a decent snowman out of
it.

G.

On 30 Nov, 23:12, wrote:
On Nov 30, 10:25*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:





On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:14:37 -0800 (PST), MIG

wrote:
Although there is mention of general delays, there seems to be a total
lack of any Metrobus buses in service down ower way (Orpington and
Croydon garages I spose).

Apparently Metrobus are saying they've pulled all their buses off the
road. *TfL's details on the real time site indicate otherwise - just
partial suspensions on some routes.

TfL are reporting most of Epsom Buses' routes are not working.

I didn't see a single one in quite a while of trudging through snow,
watching huge crowds at stops etc. *London Central and Selkent running
apparently fairly normally.

And this matches the lack of negative info on the TfL site. One has to
wonder why Metrobus are struggling so badly when other routes seem to be
still running.
--
Paul C

The Croydon area seems to have been very badly hit. *It took me over
an hour longer than usual to get from Coulsdon to Croydon this
morning. *Traffic was very slow, but at least it kept moving. *As I
was waiting to cross the road in Croydon having got off the bus at
about 10:15, a snowplough passed me, something you seldom see in these
parts, but neither the main road, nor the side streets I used seem to
have had any salt or grit applied. *Whether this was the reason for
the disruption being worse than last year, with only a small amount of
snow at that time, I don't know.

At lunchtime it was announced that the building would close at 14:00,
but at 13:45 I was asked to leave. *I walked down to the bus stop in
Park Street just before where Turtles used to be. *After about 10-15
minutes a 60 arrived, going only to Coulsdon, not continuing up the
hill to Old Coulsdon, but this is normal during snow. *I didn't see
any 405s running.

I got on, but we only moved by about a bus length every ten minutes or
so, and after nearly an hour we hadn't quite reached the end of the
road, opposite Grants, there was still another bus in front of us.
The traffic on the main road didn't seem to be moving at all at that
point, and the driver announced that all route 60 buses would be
terminating at South Croydon Garage. *I'm not sure whether he meant
that the service was being suspended, or that the buses would return
North, but neither was any use to me, so I got off. *While at work I
had checked the TfL website; route 60 was shown as having no
disruption or not being a valid route. *It was the same when I checked
while on the bus.

I walked back up Park Street, taking little more than ten seconds to
pass the stop where I'd got on almost an hour earlier. *I walked to
East Croydon station, and there was a train shown to Coulsdon South in
a few minutes from platform 6, but no train arrived, unless it had
left by the time I reached the platform; I don't think this was the
case as there was snow on the rails. *Most services were heavily
delayed, which is not surprising as the weather was pretty bad by this
time. *A Tattenham Corner train was shown as being due at 15:07, but
running 12 minutes late. *That time kept being put back, as did that
for just about all other trains, quite often showing a time which had
already passed by several minutes. *They then started announcing that
the train was just outside the station waiting for clearance to run
into the platform, but nothing arrived, and by this time the indicator
on the platform simply showed the train as 'delayed'. *A Caterham
train which was due to leave from platform 6 was changed to 5, and
eventually our Tattenham Corner train was announced as being changed
to platform 4. *A large number of people went to the subway, and I
didn't think I'd get on, but did manage to. *The train still didn't
leave for several more minutes, but eventually departed 58 minutes
late.

We ran very slowly, with very severe arcing both from our train and
from others. *Up trains seemed to be running faster than down ones.

When we reached Reedham I could see that the up track was completely
buried in snow, to above the heads of the running rails, so no up
trains seemed to be running on this line by that time. *As we left
Reedham the arcing became even more severe, and the train had
difficulty moving. *I wished I'd got off at Reedham before the doors
closed, but the train did eventually reach Smitham. *I don't know if
it managed to reach the end of the line.

When I reached Coulsdon the traffic was stationary on the main road,
so no chance of a gritter getting through. *It had taken me about
three hours to get home from Croydon.

The weather in the afternoon was much worse than it had been in the
morning, and I'm not surprised at the delays, but I think the
information could, and should, have been better, both for the buses
and the trains.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There was a report elsewhere of a train being advertised at East
Croydon as all stations to Three Bridges but after stopping at South
Croydon it run fast to Horley, great!!

There were passengers stranded on a train near Purley and passengers
have been stuck on a train near Orpington all night!

It's the worst snowfall I've seen for a very long time.

On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 01:33:49 -0800 (PST)
George wrote:
It's the worst snowfall I've seen for a very long time.

Yet in north and west london theres virtually bugger all. Strange how these
snowstorms can be so localised yet so severe.

B2003

In article , d ()
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 01:33:49 -0800 (PST)
George wrote:
It's the worst snowfall I've seen for a very long time.

Yet in north and west london theres virtually bugger all. Strange
how these
snowstorms can be so localised yet so severe.

It looks like a South East London problem only.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Dec 1, 10:03*am, wrote:

On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 01:33:49 -0800 (PST)
George wrote:
It's the worst snowfall I've seen for a very long time.

Yet in north and west london theres virtually bugger all. Strange how
these snowstorms can be so localised yet so severe.

The lay of the land, where high ground is, where weather is coming in
from, the heat island effect etc must all have an effect - but
(Greater) London's a big place and different parts of it can certainly
experience rather different weather, no doubt. Plus of course south of
the river the suburban rail services are a thoroughly enmeshed part of
the wider rail network, which is third rail powered and thus rather
more susceptible to problems when the snow and ice comes.

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 03:12:45PM -0800, wrote:

The Croydon area seems to have been very badly hit.

It was. In Thornton Heath there was about 4 or 5 inches of snow on the
ground, versus a thin scattering just a couple of miles further north,
when I got home last night.

I had to use a cab, because there were no trains running between Balham
and Thornton Heath (well, not according to announcements at the station -
the departure boards and the online live departure boards disagreed, but
given that all three were saying different things I decided to trust the
station staff to know better) and my driver told me that he'd just taken
*two hours* to get from Croydon to Balham. I could believe him too.
Southbound it wasn't too bad, but there was a ridiculous amount of
northbound traffic going nowhere fast. And this was at 10pm.

There were buses running, but with no trains they were rammed, and in
any case, the service was very infrequent, presumably because so many
buses were stuck in traffic.

The weather in the afternoon was much worse than it had been in the
morning, and I'm not surprised at the delays, but I think the
information could, and should, have been better, both for the buses
and the trains.

Yes. I don't really understand how station departure boards and the
online live departure boards can be different. Surely they're driven
off the same data sources, but they were both utterly divorced from each
other and from reality when my journey started at Shepherds Bush, when
I changed at Clapham Junction, when I got off at Balham, and three hours
later when I left the pub and went back to Balham station.

--
David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world

Suffer the little children to come unto me, as
their buying habits are most easily influenced.
-- Marketroid Jesus

On 30 Nov, 18:58, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 04:01:36 -0800 (PST), George

wrote:
A lot of bus routes have been disrupted by the snow and whilst
Metrobus have provided a lot of info through their excellent website
there is nothing at all on the TfL website which I think is an utter
disgrace. An e mail will be winging its way to them from me, I might
get a reply by next summer!

But why let the truth get in the way of a rant George?

I looked at the TfL website buses real time list earlier today and there
were plenty of entries relating to the poor weather conditions in South
East London and Croydon. *Example routes I picked were 61, 477, 466,
404, 434, 450, 96, S1, S3, S4, R5, R8 and 358. They all had entries
explained where there was general disruption or in some cases more
specific info for the route * e.g. in Orpington the bus station area by
the railway station is inaccessible so alternative stop info was listed.

You can see every disruption on the network if you select the "show all
disruptions" link rather than entering route numbers individually.

It may not be like the Facebook and Twitter feeds that some operators
run but that would be an enormous task in London. *To say nothing was
provided is just not correct and I would expect the reply from TfL to
completely contradict what you state is the case.
--
Paul C

Oh dear Paul, it looks like you are the one trying not to let facts
get in the way of starting another squabble, and that sort of nonsense
belongs on the LT Group, not to be confused with the new (argument
free) LT Group!

Where exactly do I find all this then? I looked on live travel news
but it wasn't there, and many others were also complaining about the
lack of info, perhaps you could let us all into the secret of where
TfL have hidden it as most people don't have time to search the entire
site? Of course go to the Metrobus site and you can't miss it, a
photo of buses in the snow sort of gives it away, perhaps TfL will
cotton on one day?

It's a winter wasteland here in the Beckenham area this morning,
abandoned vehicles (including buses) everywhere.

On Dec 1, 9:23*am, George wrote:
On 30 Nov, 18:58, Paul Corfield wrote:





On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 04:01:36 -0800 (PST), George

wrote:
A lot of bus routes have been disrupted by the snow and whilst
Metrobus have provided a lot of info through their excellent website
there is nothing at all on the TfL website which I think is an utter
disgrace. An e mail will be winging its way to them from me, I might
get a reply by next summer!

But why let the truth get in the way of a rant George?

I looked at the TfL website buses real time list earlier today and there
were plenty of entries relating to the poor weather conditions in South
East London and Croydon. *Example routes I picked were 61, 477, 466,
404, 434, 450, 96, S1, S3, S4, R5, R8 and 358. They all had entries
explained where there was general disruption or in some cases more
specific info for the route * e.g. in Orpington the bus station area by
the railway station is inaccessible so alternative stop info was listed..

You can see every disruption on the network if you select the "show all
disruptions" link rather than entering route numbers individually.

It may not be like the Facebook and Twitter feeds that some operators
run but that would be an enormous task in London. *To say nothing was
provided is just not correct and I would expect the reply from TfL to
completely contradict what you state is the case.
--
Paul C

Oh dear Paul, it looks like you are the one trying not to let facts
get in the way of starting another squabble, and that sort of nonsense
belongs on the LT Group, not to be confused with the new (argument
free) LT Group!

I am doing no such thing. The facts are completely clear.

Yes I had heard *you* had started an alternative group under another
of your assumed names. I don't see how you can claim it is argument
free given it has been running for "five minutes". You will get debate
and disagreement or argument at some point so it's best not to gloat
unless, of course, you are moderating all posts so that there is no
disagreement whatsoever.

Where exactly do I find all this then? I looked on live travel news
but it wasn't there, and many others were also complaining about the
lack of info, perhaps you could let us all into the secret of where
TfL have hidden it as most people don't have time to search the entire
site? *Of course go to the Metrobus site and you can't miss it, a
photo of buses in the snow sort of gives it away, perhaps TfL will
cotton on one day?

You go to Live Travel News, the default page is for LUL and DLR and
Overground but there is a Tab with "Buses" on it. Click that and you
can select by route number or else there is another link for "all
disruptions".

I have not seen people say they cannot find the info - several people
have posted about their personal experience of the service and some of
those have said that they found the relevant part of the TfL website.

Just because you cannot navigate your way through a simple part of the
TfL website in no way removes the fact that the information is
available on the site. Your accusation was that there was *no*
information - I have simply stated that you are incorrect.

It's a winter wasteland here in the Beckenham area this morning,
abandoned vehicles (including buses) everywhere

Everywhere? I doubt that somehow. There may be some vehicles left on
some roads but they won't be *everywhere*.

--
Paul C
via Google