Last Wednesday, I was in London for the day. After enjoying Southwest
Trains and London Underground, I experienced London Overground for the
First time. An aside: I was surprised by the way delays on the
Underground were announced as they are a normal occurrence.

Having utilized the Northern City I joined the Overground (North
London Line) at Highbury & Islington. The East London line side was a
hive of activity with numerous orange jacketed workers in
attendance.

Highbury & Islington station looked as if it has been largely
rebuilt. It is a very different place from the H&I of the early
1970s. The new platforms and footbridge look very good.

Onwards, I travelled to Kentish Town West. It is disappointing to see
the route narrow to two tracks. Would that the ELL could extend to
Camden Road. The bridge at Camden Road is a sad sight.

Considering the length of many journeys on the Overground, the new
trains seem well designed for their purpose. They are functional and
spacious with helpful PIS systems. They are certainly a change from
the LMR slam door stock I recall.

Generally the Overground is taking on a TfL atmosphere. The
improvements are numerous, with staff in evidence and wider entrances
and lobbies. Gone are the days of the unstaffed stations with tiny
turnstiles.

Well done TfL.

"1506" wrote in message

Last Wednesday, I was in London for the day. After enjoying Southwest
Trains and London Underground, I experienced London Overground for the
First time. An aside: I was surprised by the way delays on the
Underground were announced as they are a normal occurrence.

Having utilized the Northern City I joined the Overground (North
London Line) at Highbury & Islington. The East London line side was a
hive of activity with numerous orange jacketed workers in
attendance.

Highbury & Islington station looked as if it has been largely
rebuilt. It is a very different place from the H&I of the early
1970s. The new platforms and footbridge look very good.

Onwards, I travelled to Kentish Town West. It is disappointing to see
the route narrow to two tracks. Would that the ELL could extend to
Camden Road. The bridge at Camden Road is a sad sight.

Considering the length of many journeys on the Overground, the new
trains seem well designed for their purpose. They are functional and
spacious with helpful PIS systems. They are certainly a change from
the LMR slam door stock I recall.

Yes, agreed, though I think they could have included a bit more padding
on the seats, plus more internal route maps, visible from all seats, as
in most Tube trains.

On 24/01/2011 12:06, Recliner wrote:
wrote in message

Last Wednesday, I was in London for the day. After enjoying Southwest
Trains and London Underground, I experienced London Overground for the
First time. An aside: I was surprised by the way delays on the
Underground were announced as they are a normal occurrence.

Having utilized the Northern City I joined the Overground (North
London Line) at Highbury& Islington. The East London line side was a
hive of activity with numerous orange jacketed workers in
attendance.

Highbury& Islington station looked as if it has been largely
rebuilt. It is a very different place from the H&I of the early
1970s. The new platforms and footbridge look very good.

Onwards, I travelled to Kentish Town West. It is disappointing to see
the route narrow to two tracks. Would that the ELL could extend to
Camden Road. The bridge at Camden Road is a sad sight.

Considering the length of many journeys on the Overground, the new
trains seem well designed for their purpose. They are functional and
spacious with helpful PIS systems. They are certainly a change from
the LMR slam door stock I recall.

Yes, agreed, though I think they could have included a bit more padding
on the seats, plus more internal route maps, visible from all seats, as
in most Tube trains.


It'd also be cool if they would start offering service on the NLL from
Camden Town at least to Queen's Park. But I guess that's more of a dream.

Did I hear at some point, however, that they may eventually extend ELL
out to Canden town?

On Jan 24, 10:55*am, "
wrote:
On 24/01/2011 12:06, Recliner wrote:



*wrote in message

Last Wednesday, I was in London for the day. *After enjoying Southwest
Trains and London Underground, I experienced London Overground for the
First time. *An aside: I was surprised by the way delays on the
Underground were announced as they are a normal occurrence.

Having utilized the Northern City I joined the Overground (North
London Line) at Highbury& *Islington. *The East London line side was a
hive of activity with numerous orange jacketed workers in
attendance.

Highbury& *Islington station looked as if it has been largely
rebuilt. *It is a very different place from the H&I of the early
1970s. *The new platforms and footbridge look very good.

Onwards, I travelled to Kentish Town West. *It is disappointing to see
the route narrow to two tracks. *Would that the ELL could extend to
Camden Road. *The bridge at Camden Road is a sad sight.

Considering the length of many journeys on the Overground, the new
trains seem well designed for their purpose. *They are functional and
spacious with helpful PIS systems. *They are certainly a change from
the LMR slam door stock I recall.

Yes, agreed, though I think they could have included a bit more padding
on the seats, plus more internal route maps, visible from all seats, as
in most Tube trains.

It'd also be cool if they would start offering service on the NLL from
Camden Town at least to Queen's Park. But I guess that's more of a dream.

Did I hear at some point, however, that they may eventually extend ELL
out to Canden town?

That would be great. Better yet extend the ELL to Queens Park, or
Watford. That would mean dual electrification thru Primrose Hill.

"1506" wrote

That would be great. Better yet extend the ELL to Queens Park, or
Watford. That would mean dual electrification thru Primrose Hill.

AIUI there was dual electrification between Primrose Hill and Camden Road
from the time the short-lived Maiden Lane freightliner depot was opened
until quite recently - but has the third rail now been removed, as the NLL
is now OHLE only from Stratford to Acton. ELL units which use the connection
west of Highbury & Islington will have to change to 25 kV OHLE.

There were a while ago suggestions of restoring a Camden Road - Primrose
Hill - Queens Park service, though in the unlikely event of this coming
about it seems more likely to be operated by trains from Stratford rather
than the ELL.

Peter

On 24/1/11 19:17, in article
, "1506"
wrote:

That would be great. Better yet extend the ELL to Queens Park, or
Watford. That would mean dual electrification thru Primrose Hill.

It's unlikely that we'll ever see any more dual electrified lines.

On Jan 24, 7:17*pm, 1506 wrote:
On Jan 24, 10:55*am, "
wrote:





On 24/01/2011 12:06, Recliner wrote:

*wrote in message

Last Wednesday, I was in London for the day. *After enjoying Southwest
Trains and London Underground, I experienced London Overground for the
First time. *An aside: I was surprised by the way delays on the
Underground were announced as they are a normal occurrence.

Having utilized the Northern City I joined the Overground (North
London Line) at Highbury& *Islington. *The East London line side was a
hive of activity with numerous orange jacketed workers in
attendance.

Highbury& *Islington station looked as if it has been largely
rebuilt. *It is a very different place from the H&I of the early
1970s. *The new platforms and footbridge look very good.

Onwards, I travelled to Kentish Town West. *It is disappointing to see
the route narrow to two tracks. *Would that the ELL could extend to
Camden Road. *The bridge at Camden Road is a sad sight.

Considering the length of many journeys on the Overground, the new
trains seem well designed for their purpose. *They are functional and
spacious with helpful PIS systems. *They are certainly a change from
the LMR slam door stock I recall.

Yes, agreed, though I think they could have included a bit more padding
on the seats, plus more internal route maps, visible from all seats, as
in most Tube trains.

It'd also be cool if they would start offering service on the NLL from
Camden Town at least to Queen's Park. But I guess that's more of a dream.

Did I hear at some point, however, that they may eventually extend ELL
out to Canden town?

That would be great. *Better yet extend the ELL to Queens Park, or
Watford. *That would mean dual electrification thru Primrose Hill.

No it wouldn't, it would mean fitting the transformers into the space
left for them on the 20 DC only class 378s (or just running the
service with some of the already dual voltage class 378/2 units as not
all the ELL trains are DC only. If need be the Euston - Watford
Junction service could be run with some of the class 378/1 DC only
units to release more dual voltage units).

wrote in message
...

Did I hear at some point, however, that they may eventually extend ELL out
to Canden town?

Don't think it has ever been proposed officially. The track layout is not
designed to allow for extending the ELL west of Highbury & Islington anyway.
Between there and Camden Rd it is laid out as a two track railway in the
centre of the formation with long passing loops for freight on the outside.
Before the works were slightly reduced, there was a plan for a third
platform at Camden Rd, but this was to allow a Stratford - Camden Rd shuttle
to run.

There are two main reasons it won't happen, IMHO. Firstly, the NLL capacity
is only 8 tph in the peak, and 6 tph offpeak, to allow for the freight
traffic, so there is no room for additional trains from the ELL without
reducing the NLL service. If paths were available, eastbound trains towards
the ELL would have to cross westbound passenger and freight trains trains
from the Stratford direction, this would not allow a robust timetable.

Paul S

On Jan 24, 8:25*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

Did I hear at some point, however, that they may eventually extend ELL out
to Canden town?

Don't think it has ever been proposed officially. *The track layout is not
designed to allow for extending the ELL west of Highbury & Islington anyway.
Between there and Camden Rd it is laid out as a two track railway in the
centre of the formation with long *passing loops for freight on the outside.
Before the works were slightly reduced, there was a plan for a third
platform at Camden Rd, but this was to allow a Stratford - Camden Rd shuttle
to run.


Hasn't this extra platform at Camden Road just been postponed. DfT and
TfL were fighting over who was going to pay for the bridge
refurbishment work needed on the northern side of the formation at
Camden Road. So the extension of the four tracks beyond the station
won't now happen until after the Olympics (of course there may have
been another change of plans which I missed).

There are two main reasons it won't happen, IMHO. *Firstly, the NLL capacity
is only 8 tph in the peak, and 6 tph offpeak, to allow for the freight
traffic, so there is no room for additional trains from the ELL without
reducing the NLL service. *If paths were available, eastbound trains towards
the ELL would have to cross westbound passenger and freight trains trains
from the Stratford direction, this would not allow a robust timetable.


It's also unlikely to happen due to the layout at Highbury and
Islington, with only a single connecting track on which a voltage
changeover would also be needed.

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:55:33 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

On Jan 24, 8:25*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

Did I hear at some point, however, that they may eventually extend ELL out
to Canden town?

Don't think it has ever been proposed officially. *The track layout is not
designed to allow for extending the ELL west of Highbury & Islington anyway.
Between there and Camden Rd it is laid out as a two track railway in the
centre of the formation with long *passing loops for freight on the outside.
Before the works were slightly reduced, there was a plan for a third
platform at Camden Rd, but this was to allow a Stratford - Camden Rd shuttle
to run.


Hasn't this extra platform at Camden Road just been postponed. DfT and
TfL were fighting over who was going to pay for the bridge
refurbishment work needed on the northern side of the formation at
Camden Road. So the extension of the four tracks beyond the station
won't now happen until after the Olympics (of course there may have
been another change of plans which I missed).

The bridge refurbishment and reinstatement of tracks was a freight only
scheme that was "delayed" until after 2012. However there has been a
deathly hush for many months and I'd not be surprised if it has been
gently pushed off the DfT / Network Rail shopping list. I've not read
or heard anything about it anywhere for a long, long time.

I understand (from other forums) that the shuttle service is no more and
what LOROL will do in the peaks is run 4 tph Stratford - Clapham
Junction rather than the planned 2 tph. There is no fleet impact [1]
plus there is a better service Camden Road - Willesden Junction.

[1] I was sad enough to do some calculations.

--
Paul C