On 5 Apr, 14:32, Chris wrote:
On 5 Apr, 10:51, bob wrote:

The problem is the railways are not following a "keep calm, carry on"
approach, they are following a "pack up and go home" approach, leaving
passengers stranded. *There should be contingency plans for how to
deal with the closure of key points on the network, ready to act on
with half an hour's notice. *It should be clear to management within
half an hour whether the situation is a "open again in a few minutes"
or "closed for the rest of the evening" situation.

Don't agree. A suicide could be cleared up in 30 minutes, it could
take five hours (if the train couldn't be moved, for example), or any
time in-between.....they DO NOT know until the BTP give NR the
clearance - then they can start guesstimating. But the BTP, rightly in
my view - sorry - refuse to guesstimate saying it'll take as long as
it takes.

Your dealing with an horrific death here, not a broken down train.

*For management to
just sit on that information and neither pass it on, nor advise
passengers (who may have train-specific non flexible tickets) how to
go about getting home, nor give them advice on alternative routes that
are available, is bad management. *Just sticking a "we're really
sorry, your train is cancelled" message on the information display is
not a contingency plan, and it's not keeping calm and carrying on.

Yes, it is. The real problem is Joe Public's complete lack of patience
these days. Previously, they'd work it out for themselves that the
likely delay is a couple of hours, do I want to try a different route
or shall I wait - but with the advent of e-everything, they expect
instantaneous answers. Well, in this case, someone's life comes before
someone's trip home.

BTW - THIS PERSON LIVED LAST NIGHT......

Indeed, they did. THe only complaint I see that sticks here is that
there weren't sufficient staff available.
Don't forget this station is operated by Network Rail, so FGW don't
have info staff available, just ops....

"SB" wrote in message
...
Sadly there was yet another person hit by a train at Southall on
Monday evening (yesterday).

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/co...c=669.msg87663

This is very sad - but why so many at Southall anyway? It does seem to
be a regular occurance.

Anyway you would have thought that First Great Western might have had
a contingency plan for such occurrences by now.

Meanwhile the northbound M11 was closed for 15 hours after an accident.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-12968479
I don't know how long it took to release vehicles trapped behind the
accident. No doubt many passengers missed planes at Stansted.

Peter

On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 14:22:31 +0100
Chris Tolley (ukonline really) wrote:
They may not even understand the language. How on earth do you suppose

They could always try learning it. Just a thought...

B2003

On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 14:42:54 +0100
"Peter Masson" wrote:
Meanwhile the northbound M11 was closed for 15 hours after an accident.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-12968479
I don't know how long it took to release vehicles trapped behind the
accident. No doubt many passengers missed planes at Stansted.

Apart from the inconvenience, lost business, pollution and a host of
other problems it causes, thats a number of police tied up for 15 hours, and
for what? So they can apportion blame, thats what. They're so desperate
to nick somebody they engage in this farcical behaviour. Its time the
home office stepped in and gave the chief constables a good slapping.

B2003

In article
,
(Chris) wrote:

Don't forget this station is operated by Network Rail, so FGW don't
have info staff available, just ops....

Really? The TOCs have information staff at King's Cross?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Peter Masson) wrote:

Meanwhile the northbound M11 was closed for 15 hours after an accident.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-12968479
I don't know how long it took to release vehicles trapped behind
the accident. No doubt many passengers missed planes at Stansted.

It was quite a pile up apparently. More at
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Home...ed-by-police-a
fter-M11-pile-up.htm

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Apr 5, 3:32*pm, Chris wrote:
On 5 Apr, 10:51, bob wrote:

The problem is the railways are not following a "keep calm, carry on"
approach, they are following a "pack up and go home" approach, leaving
passengers stranded. *There should be contingency plans for how to
deal with the closure of key points on the network, ready to act on
with half an hour's notice. *It should be clear to management within
half an hour whether the situation is a "open again in a few minutes"
or "closed for the rest of the evening" situation.

Don't agree. A suicide could be cleared up in 30 minutes, it could
take five hours (if the train couldn't be moved, for example), or any
time in-between.....they DO NOT know until the BTP give NR the
clearance - then they can start guesstimating. But the BTP, rightly in
my view - sorry - refuse to guesstimate saying it'll take as long as
it takes.

Evidence would suggest that the disruption resulting from such an
event will last for several hours. In the case of an evening
disruption, it will likely persist until the end of services that
day. THIS SHUOLD BE IN THE CONTINGENCY PLAN. Along with contacts at
management of alternative routes, phone numbers for getting in coaches
to bypass the closed section of line, instructions for posting this
information on the display boards at Paddington, the phone number of
the guy at Paddington who can make announcements over the PA system,
and the phone numbers of people who need to get to Paddington to help
stranded passengers.

Your dealing with an horrific death here, not a broken down train.

In terms of giving passengers information, adivce on alternative
routes, and getting them past a closed line, it is irrelevant whether
the line is closed because of a suicide, a collapsed viaduct or some
gas bottles in a building fire. The effect on the passengers is the
same, and the solution is the same.

*For management to
just sit on that information and neither pass it on, nor advise
passengers (who may have train-specific non flexible tickets) how to
go about getting home, nor give them advice on alternative routes that
are available, is bad management. *Just sticking a "we're really
sorry, your train is cancelled" message on the information display is
not a contingency plan, and it's not keeping calm and carrying on.

Yes, it is. The real problem is Joe Public's complete lack of patience
these days. Previously, they'd work it out for themselves that the
likely delay is a couple of hours, do I want to try a different route
or shall I wait - but with the advent of e-everything, they expect
instantaneous answers.

The problem is the lack of customer service. Passengers are sold
train-specific tickets with £100+ penalties for using the wrong
train. Passengers may not know what alternative options might be
available. Passengers might hope that the problem can be resolved
reasonably quickly [1]. The railway company has the ability to
arrange to have train specific tickets honoured on alternative routes
(eg Waterloo-Reading, Waterloo-Exeter). The railway company knows
what alternative routes exist. The railway has a reasonable estimate
of how long the disruption is likely to last. There are several
automated information distribution systems at Paddington that could
provide this kind of information that were not used, and no attempt
was made to inform the pitifully few staff on the ground of the
information that passengers might want to know.

[1] Lots of times when I was based in Cambridge, when I'd turn up at
King's Cross to find some kind of problem on the next Cambridge train,
I would have no idea whether it was a problem with this particular
train, and I should wait for the next one, or if the whole ECML was
screwed (eg wires down at Stevenage), and I should go to Liverpool
Street. As someone who knows a bit about the railways, I could
usually figure out, but on those occasions when going to Liverpool
Street was the right solution, the lack of other people doing the same
thing indicated that I was in a small minority.

Well, in this case, someone's life comes before someone's trip home.

But on a competently run railway, there should not be this either/or
choice. The situation at Southall can be resolved, and passengers can
get home on alternative routes, or by bus/coach. That this did not
happen is due to bad management.

BTW - THIS PERSON LIVED LASST NIGHT......

BUT YOU SAID IT WAS AN HORRIFIC DEATH

On Apr 5, 3:32*pm, Chris wrote:

Well, in this case, someone's life comes before
someone's trip home.

Emotive nonsense; staff at the station might be dealing with a broken
rail, or an OHLE failure, or a complete signalling breakdown, or any
one of a number of things. The cause is largely irrelevant to the
provision of effective passenger information, which is the issue.

As I said, they may not be able to say when it will end, though
presumably there are degrees of this sort of thing and the BTP might
be able to give an idea between 2 hours and "not until tomorrow" - in
the former case you probably won't need buses, in the latter you
probably will.

Staff at the station are not dealing with the deceased, that's the
BTP's job. Staff at the station are dealing with severe disruption,
the reason for which is in many ways irrelevant.

Neil

On Apr 5, 4:23*pm, bob wrote:

[1] Lots of times when I was based in Cambridge, when I'd turn up at
King's Cross to find some kind of problem on the next Cambridge train,
I would have no idea whether it was a problem with this particular
train, and I should wait for the next one, or if the whole ECML was
screwed (eg wires down at Stevenage), and I should go to Liverpool
Street. *

Try dealing with that when travelling by air, when airlines will
pretty much point blank refuse to tell you what is actually going on.

"Late arrival of the inbound aircraft" is not a helpful piece of
information, and it may as well not be given. But why not give a
useful piece of information that passengers can use to work out how
long it's likely to be?

A couple of months ago I spent about 3 hours standing at a gate at
Geneva airport as the delay minutes went up by 20 minutes every 20
minutes. This is silly; I could have gone to a restaurant and eaten
had they told me the aircraft hadn't even left Luton yet - that would
give a minimum of an hour and a half. But nobody knew or was willing
to say.

Neil

On 5 Apr., 15:32, Chris wrote:
Yes, it is. The real problem is Joe Public's complete lack of patience
these days. Previously, they'd work it out for themselves that the
likely delay is a couple of hours, do I want to try a different route
or shall I wait -

Interesting point.
I wonder, wether the staff at Waterloo would be aware of what was
going on and letting Reading passengers onto the corresponding train
for example? In the past it would have taken one phone call from
Paddington to Waterloo to set that up, but do the railways still think
like that?