On LU it used to be an announcement 1 minute after the initial delay. I
think it's now 30 seconds. If it's 1 seconds or more later than it should
be and somebody is secretly monitoring the driver, the driver gets a
bollocking. I think the follow up PA is after 2 minutes. I forget what
subsequent ones were. The driver still gets a bollocking if he is late or
misses those as well.

Roger

*From:* Neil Williams
*Date:* Tue, 5 Apr 2011 02:32:38 -0700 (PDT)

On Apr 5, 11:12*am, Chris Tolley (ukonline
really) wrote:

Until those investigating at the scene have actually said, "okay,
we've
finished now" all rail staff can do is offer guesses, though.

What they can do is offer the ability to say "we were told to do
that". Which can be very useful when someone gets stuck further
down
the line.

They can also reassure people that they aren't being ignored. The
LUL
requirement for a "we are being held at a red signal" announcement
after N minutes (N=2?) is a good example. It does not provide
useful
information, but it does provide reassurance that someone gives a
monkeys about the passengers and they are not just an operational
inconvenience.

It's very hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all answer in these
circumstances, apart from "keep calm and carry on".

And reassurance. The human factor is very important, but often
neglected.

Oddly, said human factor can sometimes be provided via technology.
I
find LM's Twitter feed very good for this.

Neil

On 06/04/2011 09:50, d wrote:
On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 20:49:52 +0100
Charles wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 13:44:05 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 14:22:31 +0100
Chris (ukonline really) wrote:
They may not even understand the language. How on earth do you suppose

They could always try learning it. Just a thought...

A bit hard when your husband has effective control on your activities.

Utter drivel. How hard is it to buy an english book, watch TV, listen
to the radio? And unless they had 2 minutes notice they would have known
they were going to britain and could have learnt some before they left home.
So stop making excuses for these people.


You really haven't a clue, have you?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On Tue, Apr 05, 2011 at 03:11:43AM -0700, Neil Williams wrote:

FWIW, I do not claim Delay Repay money from the railway in an event
causing delay that is beyond its control, such as the one this thread
is discussing; that would seem unreasonable to me.

Why? If I don't supply a service that someone has paid me for, then no
matter how good my excuse I'd expect them to kick up a stink and I'd
consider them well within their rights to demand a refund. And if I
only partially deliver on my promise (by, for example, being late) I
would pay at least a partial refund without quibbling.

But it does seem
reasonable to me that regardless of the cause of the delay the railway
should assist the passengers and provide them information, even if
that information is "we haven't forgotten you, but by the way there is
no information". It might similarly mean that the railway isn't in a
position to pay for hotel accommodation

Of course they're in a position to pay for hotel accommodation if their
failure to run a train means that passengers can't get to their
destination. If they're not in a position to pay a hotel bill, then
they're also not in a position to pay for maintenance on their trains,
and that worries me a lot.

Again, if my failure (no matter how good my excuse - like if I can't
return something I borrowed because some chav stole it) makes others
incur costs (the cost of replacing whatever it was that I borrowed)
then I would expect to at least re-pay their reasonable expenses, if
not pay for them up front.

--
David Cantrell | Bourgeois reactionary pig

For every vengeance, there is an equal and opposite revengeance.
-- Cartoon Law X

On Tue, Apr 05, 2011 at 11:52:26AM +0100, Chris Tolley wrote:

As to the railways, I am sure that corporately the view has always been
that the customers should be treated well, but at the sharp end it is
all very much dependent on the person on the spot ...

Hah! I'm sure it's the other way round.

--
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

Arbeit macht Alkoholiker

On Tue, Apr 05, 2011 at 02:42:54PM +0100, Peter Masson wrote:

Meanwhile the northbound M11 was closed for 15 hours after an accident.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-12968479
I don't know how long it took to release vehicles trapped behind the
accident. No doubt many passengers missed planes at Stansted.

Are those "stuck" not eventually directed to go back the "wrong way" and
off at the first junction? Obviously you'd need some traffic plod at
the top of the slip road, which, being an *entrance* to the motorway is
not designed for people coming up it and onto the roundabout that is
typically at the top.

--
David Cantrell
Professor of Unvironmental Science
University of Human Progress

On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 13:05:49 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 06/04/2011 09:50, d wrote:
On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 20:49:52 +0100
Charles wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 13:44:05 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 14:22:31 +0100
Chris (ukonline really) wrote:
They may not even understand the language. How on earth do you suppose

They could always try learning it. Just a thought...

A bit hard when your husband has effective control on your activities.

Utter drivel. How hard is it to buy an english book, watch TV, listen
to the radio? And unless they had 2 minutes notice they would have known
they were going to britain and could have learnt some before they left home.
So stop making excuses for these people.


You really haven't a clue, have you?

I have plenty thanks. Unfortunately you and Ellison and just a couple of
hand wringing liberal apologists and the reason my council tax bill comes
with about 20 different languages at the back - all paid for by tax payers
naturally. Funny how in france you either learn french or suffer the
consequences but I don't see any human rights muppets squawking about that.

B2003

On 06/04/2011 15:47, d wrote:
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 13:05:49 +0100
Graeme wrote:
On 06/04/2011 09:50, d wrote:
On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 20:49:52 +0100
Charles wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 13:44:05 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 14:22:31 +0100
Chris (ukonline really) wrote:
They may not even understand the language. How on earth do you suppose

They could always try learning it. Just a thought...

A bit hard when your husband has effective control on your activities.

Utter drivel. How hard is it to buy an english book, watch TV, listen
to the radio? And unless they had 2 minutes notice they would have known
they were going to britain and could have learnt some before they left home.
So stop making excuses for these people.


You really haven't a clue, have you?

I have plenty thanks. Unfortunately you and Ellison and just a couple of
hand wringing liberal apologists


As I said, you haven't got a clue.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:32:06 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
Utter drivel. How hard is it to buy an english book, watch TV, listen
to the radio? And unless they had 2 minutes notice they would have known
they were going to britain and could have learnt some before they left
home.
So stop making excuses for these people.


You really haven't a clue, have you?

I have plenty thanks. Unfortunately you and Ellison and just a couple of
hand wringing liberal apologists


As I said, you haven't got a clue.

Ah, standard issue get-me-out-of-this-hole-i've-dug response #1 - if you have
no answer just keep repeating yourself and hope the other person gives up.

Sad.

B2003

On 06/04/2011 16:40, d wrote:
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:32:06 +0100
Graeme wrote:
Utter drivel. How hard is it to buy an english book, watch TV, listen
to the radio? And unless they had 2 minutes notice they would have known
they were going to britain and could have learnt some before they left
home.
So stop making excuses for these people.


You really haven't a clue, have you?

I have plenty thanks. Unfortunately you and Ellison and just a couple of
hand wringing liberal apologists


As I said, you haven't got a clue.

Ah, standard issue get-me-out-of-this-hole-i've-dug response #1 - if you have
no answer just keep repeating yourself and hope the other person gives up.

Sad.


ROTFL

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

d wrote:

On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 10:39:33 +0100
Chris Tolley (ukonline really) wrote:
So, let's transpose the situation. You've gone to Gazumboland on the
promise of a job, and you are met at the capital's airport by someone
from the firm you are going to be working for, who drives you to the
company's office. On the way, he kindly takes your mobile phone from
you so that he can fit it with the right kind of SIM for the Gazumbo
phone company. Except when the car eventually stops, it's not the
company's office, it's a shack about 125km into the back of beyond where
the only language spoken is Gazimbi and it is written in a script that
looks more like sparrow footprints than letters. Then it turns out there
aren't any prospects at all. And you never got your phone back. All in
all you reckon you want out. I suppose you could try learning the
language, but most folk would have other things higher on their list of
priorities.

Well unless you're suggesting that ALL spouses are effectively kidnapped
and brought here then that example is ********. Sure, there are some but
we're not talking about them.

How do you know we are not talking about people in corresponding
situations? I was.

We're talking about women (and some men) who know full well who
they're going to marry - whether they want to or not is another issue
- and where they will live long before it happens.

You might want to talk about those people, but they are not the people I
was talking about. I'm talking about those who do not have the
wherewithal to help themselves, not those who do.

There is nothing to stop them learning the language first.

As one who has travelled in the third world (and well off the tourist
track) I have learned not to make such rash assumptions. We are
incredibly well-served by the services that are provided by the
government through our taxes. In other places, if you don't arrive at
the school gate with the requisite daily fee in your hand, you don't get
an education.

If I went off to live in India I'd make damn sure I had at least a
working knowledge of Hindi or perhaps the local state language before
i went. Stop trying to excuse lazyness or are you going to say that
all the ex-pat Brits in the costas who can't be arsed to learn
spanish also have a good excuse not to bother?

No, because one of my talents is sticking to the point, no matter how
much obfuscation comes along.
--
..sig down for maintenance