It seems FCC have ****ed up nicely. My wife got the line from moorgate
back to finsbury went through the gates on the platform then onto the
piccadilly line. When she left the latter she got stung with a penalty fare.
It seems the platform gates at FP have been set up as entry/exit gates rather
than transfer gates. Thats nice of them. Are they trying to discourage
people using the moorgate line or are they just indifferent cretins who
really arn't interesting in implementing PAYG effectively and this is
their 2 fingers to the mayor?

B2003

wrote:
It seems FCC have ****ed up nicely. My wife got the line from moorgate
back to finsbury went through the gates on the platform then onto the
piccadilly line. When she left the latter she got stung with a penalty
fare.
It seems the platform gates at FP have been set up as entry/exit gates
rather
than transfer gates. Thats nice of them. Are they trying to discourage
people using the moorgate line or are they just indifferent cretins who
really arn't interesting in implementing PAYG effectively and this is
their 2 fingers to the mayor?


More the latter I'd suggest (albeit without the two fingers) - it sounds
like what passengers have to do (as per the system design) is touch-in again
when heading down to the Tube platforms (i.e. it's configured as an
out-of-station interchange, aka OSI) - however whether there's anything to
communicate this to pax is another matter.

It seems a bit reminiscent of the situation at Tottenham Hale, where the
Tube is gated whilst the mainline platforms are not, but a passenger
transferring between the two needs to touch-in again on walking to the
mainline platforms, or likewise touch-out on leaving them before heading to
the Tube. In other words these are out-of-station interchanges, without the
passenger ever leaving the station property.

(Yes, the same could be said of Tube stations at mainline termini,
particularly Euston where not all the mainline platforms which serve
PAYG-land are gated - but that situation does seem a bit different, not
least because of the relatively clear delineation between the mainline and
Tube station.)

On Fri, 13 May 2011 12:49:37 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
More the latter I'd suggest (albeit without the two fingers) - it sounds
like what passengers have to do (as per the system design) is touch-in again

Yes, I suppose that could be the case. No doubt even then however she'd
have ended up paying more than for just a straightforward through journey.

B2003

wrote:

On Fri, 13 May 2011 12:49:37 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
More the latter I'd suggest (albeit without the two fingers) - it sounds
like what passengers have to do (as per the system design) is touch-in
again

Yes, I suppose that could be the case. No doubt even then however she'd
have ended up paying more than for just a straightforward through journey.


I disagree - the system doesn't operate randomly. However please do note
that I'm not criticising her or anyone else who might get caught up in
this - instead what I was trying to do was explore the issues at a station
such as Finsbury Park where there's an 'in-station OSI', and the problems it
can - and seemingly already is - throwing up. Having to touch-in on a
standalone validator en-route to the Tube, or indeed touch-out on one
leaving the Tube en-route to the mainline platforms is something that a
great many pax will see as counter-intuitive - either there needs to be very
clear instructions given (though even that would be difficult at FP), or
else perhaps the gates need to be configured in 'interchange mode' (as was
the case with the old Stratford JLE gates), though that in turn presents
other issues.

Ideally however the whole station complex should be gated (though that in
turn would mean that people couldn't walk through the tube station tunnels
between the different bus plazas - though technically speaking said tunnels
are possibly already in the fare-paid area, i.e. for ticket holders only, I
dunno).

On Fri, 13 May 2011 14:47:43 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
Yes, I suppose that could be the case. No doubt even then however she'd
have ended up paying more than for just a straightforward through journey.


I disagree - the system doesn't operate randomly. However please do note
that I'm not criticising her or anyone else who might get caught up in

I'm not saying it operates randomly , but what she would be doing is
effectively finishing one journey and then starting a new one at the same
station which always costs more than a through journey. Anyone who doesn't
believe me is welcome to try it!

B2003

wrote:

On Fri, 13 May 2011 14:47:43 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
Yes, I suppose that could be the case. No doubt even then however she'd
have ended up paying more than for just a straightforward through
journey.


I disagree - the system doesn't operate randomly. However please do note
that I'm not criticising her or anyone else who might get caught up in

I'm not saying it operates randomly , but what she would be doing is
effectively finishing one journey and then starting a new one at the same
station which always costs more than a through journey. Anyone who doesn't
believe me is welcome to try it!


No - it would be charged as one through journey - because it's configured as
an OSI, and that's what happens at OSIs - 'closed' journeys are re-opened
when touching in at the second station/gateline, or in this case on the
standalone validators en-route to the Tube platforms. (Am prob up that way
shortly, if so I'll try it out in practice.)

In message , Mizter T
writes

More the latter I'd suggest (albeit without the two fingers) - it
sounds like what passengers have to do (as per the system design) is
touch-in again when heading down to the Tube platforms (i.e. it's
configured as an out-of-station interchange, aka OSI) - however whether
there's anything to communicate this to pax is another matter.

There's a discussion of this issue at
http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/2011/0...finsbury-park/

Apparently there are posters explaining the new arrangements, but not
everyone thinks they are very prominent.
--
Paul Terry

On Fri, 13 May 2011 15:12:42 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
No - it would be charged as one through journey - because it's configured as
an OSI, and that's what happens at OSIs - 'closed' journeys are re-opened
when touching in at the second station/gateline, or in this case on the
standalone validators en-route to the Tube platforms. (Am prob up that way
shortly, if so I'll try it out in practice.)

But what happens if someone touches out on the platform and then just leaves
the station?

Anyway , if you do do that journey post the result here because I'm sure my
wife would be interested to know as she does that trip quite often and
she's not a fan of the northern line.

B2003

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

No - it would be charged as one through journey - because it's configured
as an OSI, and that's what happens at OSIs - 'closed' journeys are
re-opened when touching in at the second station/gateline, or in this case
on the standalone validators en-route to the Tube platforms. (Am prob up
that way shortly, if so I'll try it out in practice.)

Looks like Boltar has missed about three or four years worth of on and off
discussion here explaining exactly what happens at OSIs.

Paul S

wrote:

On Fri, 13 May 2011 15:12:42 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
No - it would be charged as one through journey - because it's configured
as
an OSI, and that's what happens at OSIs - 'closed' journeys are re-opened
when touching in at the second station/gateline, or in this case on the
standalone validators en-route to the Tube platforms. (Am prob up that way
shortly, if so I'll try it out in practice.)

But what happens if someone touches out on the platform and then just
leaves
the station?

Their journey is finished - the card is in a state whereby the journey is
regarded as being resolved, but it can be re-comenced if touched-in at 'the
other' station or stations (so long as that happens within a certain time
period) - this would not be the case if one exited from a station/gateline
without an OSI.


Anyway , if you do do that journey post the result here because I'm sure
my
wife would be interested to know as she does that trip quite often and
she's not a fan of the northern line.

Think it may have lost its crown of the 'misery line' to the Jubilee these
days but must say that I do still boggle a little when travelling on it
during the high-peak.