Though I heard about this on LBC this morning too so I suspect it isn't.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...strian-crossin
g-devout-Jews-cross-road.html

http://percyweller.wordpress.com/201...every-90-secs/

I would suggest that if these religious nutters really are so hamstrung by
their interpretation of their religion they just stay inside instead of
everyone else being inconvenienced - including probably the large number of
ordinary jews that live in that area.

B2003

In message , d
writes
Though I heard about this on LBC this morning too so I suspect it isn't.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ree-pedestrian
-crossin
g-devout-Jews-cross-road.html

http://percyweller.wordpress.com/201...every-90-secs/

I would suggest that if these religious nutters really are so hamstrung by
their interpretation of their religion they just stay inside instead of
everyone else being inconvenienced - including probably the large number of
ordinary jews that live in that area.

This was discussed on London local radio station LBC's phone-in at
around 9am. The traffic will be stopped every 90 seconds, regardless
whether anyone wants to cross or not.

The first caller was a rabbi from (I think) Finchley. He thought the
whole idea was nuts. He himself observed the Shabat tradition of not
using things mechanical and electrical - and this indeed did cause him
problems when using pedestrian controlled crossings. His solution was to
wait until someone else pressed the button or, if there was a gap in the
traffic, crossed anyway. His compromise solution was that the gaps
between the crossing times could be made much longer - up to four or
five minute.
--
Ian

On Oct 3, 10:52*am, Ian Jackson
wrote:
In message ,
writesThough I heard about this on LBC this morning too so I suspect it isn't.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ree-pedestrian
-crossin
g-devout-Jews-cross-road.html

http://percyweller.wordpress.com/201...be-held-every-...

I would suggest that if these religious nutters really are so hamstrung by
their interpretation of their religion they just stay inside instead of
everyone else being inconvenienced - including probably the large number of
ordinary jews that live in that area.

This was discussed on London local radio station LBC's phone-in at
around 9am. The traffic will be stopped every 90 seconds, regardless
whether anyone wants to cross or not.

The first caller was a rabbi from (I think) Finchley. He thought the
whole idea was nuts. He himself observed the Shabat tradition of not
using things mechanical and electrical - and this indeed did cause him
problems when using pedestrian controlled crossings. His solution was to
wait until someone else pressed the button or, if there was a gap in the
traffic, crossed anyway. His compromise solution was that the gaps
between the crossing times could be made much longer - up to four or
five minute.

Sounds sensible.

wrote in message
...
Though I heard about this on LBC this morning too so I suspect it isn't.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...strian-crossin
g-devout-Jews-cross-road.html

http://percyweller.wordpress.com/201...every-90-secs/

I would suggest that if these religious nutters really are so hamstrung by
their interpretation of their religion they just stay inside instead of
everyone else being inconvenienced - including probably the large number
of
ordinary jews that live in that area.

B2003

This is silly - removing the button doesn't help them to avoid breaking
their law: The religious law prohibits them from using electricity or
operating machinery on the Sabbath. What exactly do they think the green man
is powered by?!!

On Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:02:31 +0100
"GT" wrote:
This is silly - removing the button doesn't help them to avoid breaking
their law: The religious law prohibits them from using electricity or
operating machinery on the Sabbath. What exactly do they think the green man
is powered by?!!

Good point, I hadn't thought of that!

B2003

wrote in message

On Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:02:31 +0100
"GT" wrote:
This is silly - removing the button doesn't help them to avoid
breaking their law: The religious law prohibits them from using
electricity or operating machinery on the Sabbath. What exactly do
they think the green man is powered by?!!

Good point, I hadn't thought of that!

I think they're not supposed to *cause* work to be done, but can take
advantage of things that are happening anyway.

For example, I was once in a hotel in Jerusalem and on a Friday night,
headed for the lift to go down to the lobby. I noticed a crowd of people
waiting by another lift, but once I hit the button, they were happy to
join me in 'my' lift. Apparently, one lift runs an all-floors stopping
service on the Shabbat, but the others work normally. If a non-Jew like
me pressed the button for one of those lifts, they had no trouble taking
advantage of it. Apparently it's OK for non-Jews to cause work to be
done that benefits Jews, but not for those same Jews to cause it.

Similarly, there was a card in the room which let you tell them if you
wanted the room light left on -- it was apparently OK for the orthodox
guests to take advantage of electric light, but not to switch it on
during the Shabbat itself. There are several other strange examples like
that in Jerusalem.

It's worth pointing out that even in Israel, only a minority of Jewish
citizens take their religion to these extreme lengths. But the
extremists are very intolerant. They block the streets in their areas to
stop anyone else driving through on the Shabbat, and I was told they are
liable to chuck stones at cars that attempt to get in. They take a
particularly dim view of other Jews breaking this rule -- they don't
care what gentiles do.

On Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:59:29 +0100
"Recliner" wrote:
For example, I was once in a hotel in Jerusalem and on a Friday night,
headed for the lift to go down to the lobby. I noticed a crowd of people
waiting by another lift, but once I hit the button, they were happy to
join me in 'my' lift. Apparently, one lift runs an all-floors stopping
service on the Shabbat, but the others work normally. If a non-Jew like
me pressed the button for one of those lifts, they had no trouble taking
advantage of it. Apparently it's OK for non-Jews to cause work to be
done that benefits Jews, but not for those same Jews to cause it.

So in other words they've come up with a get out clause to get around the
smallprint in some rule no one is forcing them to follow in the first
place. The ****wittedness of humanity knows no bounds.

It's worth pointing out that even in Israel, only a minority of Jewish
citizens take their religion to these extreme lengths. But the
extremists are very intolerant. They block the streets in their areas to

Extremists by definition are intolerant whatever group or cause they belong to.
I think most of them have borderline personality disorders TBH.

B2003

On Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:59:29 +0100, "Recliner"
wrote:

wrote in message

On Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:02:31 +0100
"GT" wrote:
This is silly - removing the button doesn't help them to avoid
breaking their law: The religious law prohibits them from using
electricity or operating machinery on the Sabbath. What exactly do
they think the green man is powered by?!!

Good point, I hadn't thought of that!

I think they're not supposed to *cause* work to be done, but can take
advantage of things that are happening anyway.

For example, I was once in a hotel in Jerusalem and on a Friday night,
headed for the lift to go down to the lobby. I noticed a crowd of people
waiting by another lift, but once I hit the button, they were happy to
join me in 'my' lift. Apparently, one lift runs an all-floors stopping
service on the Shabbat, but the others work normally. If a non-Jew like
me pressed the button for one of those lifts, they had no trouble taking
advantage of it. Apparently it's OK for non-Jews to cause work to be
done that benefits Jews, but not for those same Jews to cause it.

It's even OK to employ a "shabbos goy" to do things which they aren't
themselves allowed to do.

And, of course, the use of technology to circumvent the spirit of the
law while keeping to the letter of the law is also OK, as in the use
of ovens with 'shabbos' settings.

When all else fails, they set up an "eruv" like the one in Golders
Green where all kinds of shabbos violations are permissible within its
borders.

"The Revd" wrote in message

On Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:59:29 +0100, "Recliner"
wrote:

For example, I was once in a hotel in Jerusalem and on a Friday
night, headed for the lift to go down to the lobby. I noticed a
crowd of people waiting by another lift, but once I hit the button,
they were happy to join me in 'my' lift. Apparently, one lift runs
an all-floors stopping service on the Shabbat, but the others work
normally. If a non-Jew like me pressed the button for one of those
lifts, they had no trouble taking advantage of it. Apparently it's
OK for non-Jews to cause work to be done that benefits Jews, but not
for those same Jews to cause it.

It's even OK to employ a "shabbos goy" to do things which they aren't
themselves allowed to do.

Yes, I gather they employ Christian Palestinians in Jerusalem for such
tasks.

And, of course, the use of technology to circumvent the spirit of the
law while keeping to the letter of the law is also OK, as in the use
of ovens with 'shabbos' settings.

Yes, I was told about such devices -- eg, food warmers in hospitals
which are plugged into electrical sockets which periodically switch off
for a minute or so during the Shabbat. It's apparently OK to plug them
in when the light's off, knowing that it'll come on shortly to keep the
food warm. It seemed completely ridiculous.


When all else fails, they set up an "eruv" like the one in Golders
Green where all kinds of shabbos violations are permissible within its
borders.

I suppose it's much like playing a computer game -- one group comes up
with a set of bizarre, invented rules, that others then try to outsmart.
But they shouldn't be allowed to inflict their fantasies on others.

On Oct 3, 1:01*pm, The Revd wrote:
On Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:59:29 +0100, "Recliner"





wrote:
wrote in message

On Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:02:31 +0100
"GT" wrote:
This is silly - removing the button doesn't help them to avoid
breaking their law: The religious law prohibits them from using
electricity or operating machinery on the Sabbath. What exactly do
they think the green man is powered by?!!

Good point, I hadn't thought of that!

I think they're not supposed to *cause* work to be done, but can take
advantage of things that are happening anyway.

For example, I was once in a hotel in Jerusalem and on a Friday night,
headed for the lift to go down to the lobby. I noticed a crowd of people
waiting by another lift, but once I hit the button, they were happy to
join me in 'my' lift. Apparently, one lift runs an all-floors stopping
service on the Shabbat, but the others work normally. If a non-Jew like
me pressed the button for one of those lifts, they had no trouble taking
advantage of it. Apparently it's OK for non-Jews to cause work to be
done that benefits Jews, but not for those same Jews to cause it.

It's even OK to employ a "shabbos goy" to do things which they aren't
themselves allowed to do.

And, of course, the use of technology to circumvent the spirit of the
law while keeping to the letter of the law is also OK, as in the use
of ovens with 'shabbos' settings.

When all else fails, they set up an "eruv" like the one in Golders
Green where all kinds of shabbos violations are permissible within its
borders.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why do the Orthdox believe that Almighty God needs to "rest" on the
7th day? That surely is a mortal attribute?

And as for the Sabbath itself:

“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the
things that are God’s." (Matthew 22:21)