I agree with that but I wonder why we get all this ire against
cyclists when it is the much larger number of moron motor vehicle
drivers who kill thousands of people every year.

Perhaps it is that (i) in London at least a much higher proportion of
cyclists act unlawfully and without consideration for others -
especially pedestrians who seem to be seen as a soft target (sic) and
(ii) there is next to no enforcement of the law and penalties for
cyclists - indeed, it is almost impossible to take action against a
cyclist who fails to stop after smashing one's shopping, ripping
trousers, etc etc.

Look at it another way. I cannot recall when I last had to take
avoiding action because of a car going through a red light or driving
the wrong way on a one-way road. It is pretty much a weekly event with
cyclists.
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:27:45 -0000, "Robin" wrote:

You should also ensure that your insurance covers you for assault
causing actual bodily harm. If it doesn't then it's probably best not
to try this as it could be very expensive indeed.

Most people would know that (as a matter of public policy) you cannot
insure against a criminal act carried out intentionally.

That was very much the point I was making. It is the moral equivalent
of using a baseball bat on shoplifters. It might be superficially
satisfying but it is disproportionate and illegal.

Guy
--
Guy Chapman, http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
The usenet price promise: all opinions are guaranteed
to be worth at least what you paid for them.

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:27:45 -0000, "Robin" wrote:

You should also ensure that your insurance covers you for assault
causing actual bodily harm. If it doesn't then it's probably best
not to try this as it could be very expensive indeed.

Most people would know that (as a matter of public policy) you cannot
insure against a criminal act carried out intentionally.

That was very much the point I was making. It is the moral equivalent
of using a baseball bat on shoplifters. It might be superficially
satisfying but it is disproportionate and illegal.

Guy

the cyclist won't lose, their own household insurance will cover any losses
they suffer.

That was very much the point I was making. It is the moral equivalent
of using a baseball bat on shoplifters. It might be superficially
satisfying but it is disproportionate and illegal.

You are not allowing for the possibilty that a walking stick might be
inserted in the spokes by accident. I would hope a jury might bear in
mind that an elderly chap crossing the road with a walking stick cannot
be expected to ensure it does not go through the wheel of a cyclist
ignoring the pedestrian crossing, red lights, one-way road etc. And
given the averaae age of jurors these days I would also hope that some
would understand the difficulties.

They might also share the view that a cyclist riding at speed through
red lights at a pedestrian is morally more akin to an armed robber than
a shoplifter.

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On 20/11/2011 12:55, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 12:25:48 -0000, "Jack
wrote:

"SB" wrote in message
...

Today is Saturday and I have have been walking the streets of London
doing Xmas shopping along with thousands of others. But I live here;
most of the others are tourists. However London is very bad this year
- there are too many cyclists without lights, riding on the pavements,
and jumping the red lights. I used to be a keen cyclist having been
brought up with National Cycling Proficiency at school, and at least
reading the Highway Code. I WAS a keen cyclist - but now no more.

And now-a-days I am gob-smacked at the selfishness of modern cyclists.
This afternoon alone I have nearly been knocked over 5 times by
cyclists without lights jumping the red traffic lights - when they
have been green for me as a pedestrian. If I shout out after they just
miss knocking me over all I get told is "fcuk off!" Nice, This reduces
my sympathy for cyclists to zero.

As a responsible cyclist, who stops at traffic lights, carries lights and
fluorescent clothing and reflectors and respects other users of the road
(and pavements) I share your irritation with the morons who give us all a
bad name.

May I recommend that you carry a sturdy walking stick when out as a
pedestrian. When one of these selfish scum ignores the rules of the road
simply insert it between the spokes. It will focus the mind as the cranium
makes contact with the road surface. ;-)

You should also ensure that your insurance covers you for assault
causing actual bodily harm. If it doesn't then it's probably best not
to try this as it could be very expensive indeed.

Guy

And of course the cyclist who assaults you while riding through a
pedestrian crossing in the green man phase will also have insurance.

On 20/11/2011 12:55, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 12:25:48 -0000, "Jack
wrote:

"SB" wrote in message
...

Today is Saturday and I have have been walking the streets of London
doing Xmas shopping along with thousands of others. But I live here;
most of the others are tourists. However London is very bad this year
- there are too many cyclists without lights, riding on the pavements,
and jumping the red lights. I used to be a keen cyclist having been
brought up with National Cycling Proficiency at school, and at least
reading the Highway Code. I WAS a keen cyclist - but now no more.

And now-a-days I am gob-smacked at the selfishness of modern cyclists.
This afternoon alone I have nearly been knocked over 5 times by
cyclists without lights jumping the red traffic lights - when they
have been green for me as a pedestrian. If I shout out after they just
miss knocking me over all I get told is "fcuk off!" Nice, This reduces
my sympathy for cyclists to zero.

As a responsible cyclist, who stops at traffic lights, carries lights and
fluorescent clothing and reflectors and respects other users of the road
(and pavements) I share your irritation with the morons who give us all a
bad name.

May I recommend that you carry a sturdy walking stick when out as a
pedestrian. When one of these selfish scum ignores the rules of the road
simply insert it between the spokes. It will focus the mind as the cranium
makes contact with the road surface. ;-)

You should also ensure that your insurance covers you for assault
causing actual bodily harm. If it doesn't then it's probably best not
to try this as it could be very expensive indeed.

Do you want pedestrians to be able and prepared to defend themselves, or not?

Or must they simply be resigned to the fact that the aggressors will always
get away with it?

On 20/11/2011 13:37, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:27:45 -0000, wrote:

You should also ensure that your insurance covers you for assault
causing actual bodily harm. If it doesn't then it's probably best not
to try this as it could be very expensive indeed.

Most people would know that (as a matter of public policy) you cannot
insure against a criminal act carried out intentionally.

That was very much the point I was making. It is the moral equivalent
of using a baseball bat on shoplifters. It might be superficially
satisfying but it is disproportionate and illegal.

What would be "proportionate"?

Other than letting them continue to get away with it.

JNugent wrote:
On 20/11/2011 12:55, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 12:25:48 -0000, "Jack
wrote:

"SB" wrote in message
...

Today is Saturday and I have have been walking the streets of
London doing Xmas shopping along with thousands of others. But I
live here; most of the others are tourists. However London is very
bad this year - there are too many cyclists without lights, riding
on the pavements, and jumping the red lights. I used to be a keen
cyclist having been brought up with National Cycling Proficiency
at school, and at least reading the Highway Code. I WAS a keen
cyclist - but now no more. And now-a-days I am gob-smacked at the
selfishness of modern
cyclists. This afternoon alone I have nearly been knocked over 5
times by cyclists without lights jumping the red traffic lights -
when they have been green for me as a pedestrian. If I shout out
after they just miss knocking me over all I get told is "fcuk
off!" Nice, This reduces my sympathy for cyclists to zero.

As a responsible cyclist, who stops at traffic lights, carries
lights and fluorescent clothing and reflectors and respects other
users of the road (and pavements) I share your irritation with the
morons who give us all a bad name.

May I recommend that you carry a sturdy walking stick when out as a
pedestrian. When one of these selfish scum ignores the rules of the
road simply insert it between the spokes. It will focus the mind as
the cranium makes contact with the road surface. ;-)

You should also ensure that your insurance covers you for assault
causing actual bodily harm. If it doesn't then it's probably best not
to try this as it could be very expensive indeed.

Do you want pedestrians to be able and prepared to defend themselves,
or not?
Or must they simply be resigned to the fact that the aggressors will
always get away with it?

and who is the vulnerable victim here?

On Nov 20, 1:27*pm, "Robin" wrote:
You should also ensure that your insurance covers you for assault
causing actual bodily harm. If it doesn't then it's probably best not
to try this as it could be very expensive indeed.

Most people would know that (as a matter of public policy) you cannot
insure against a criminal act carried out intentionally. *I do hope the
Lycra is not restricting the blood supply.

But I do agree it is an action best taken by people with little or
nothing to lose. *I have, for example, a little list of crossings I
intend to visit with my stout walking stick if I ever have the "best put
your affairs in order a.s.a.p." talk with the doctor.

I would go on a series of luxury holidays if I had such news, not go
around assaulting other people.
Still, it would be your own time you would be wasting.

--
Simon Mason

On 20/11/2011 12:25, Jack Taylor wrote:
"SB" wrote in message
...

Today is Saturday and I have have been walking the streets of London
doing Xmas shopping along with thousands of others. But I live here;
most of the others are tourists. However London is very bad this year
- there are too many cyclists without lights, riding on the pavements,
and jumping the red lights. I used to be a keen cyclist having been
brought up with National Cycling Proficiency at school, and at least
reading the Highway Code. I WAS a keen cyclist - but now no more.

And now-a-days I am gob-smacked at the selfishness of modern cyclists.
This afternoon alone I have nearly been knocked over 5 times by
cyclists without lights jumping the red traffic lights - when they
have been green for me as a pedestrian. If I shout out after they just
miss knocking me over all I get told is "fcuk off!" Nice, This reduces
my sympathy for cyclists to zero.

As a responsible cyclist, who stops at traffic lights, carries lights
and fluorescent clothing and reflectors and respects other users of the
road (and pavements) I share your irritation with the morons who give us
all a bad name.

May I recommend that you carry a sturdy walking stick when out as a
pedestrian. When one of these selfish scum ignores the rules of the road
simply insert it between the spokes. It will focus the mind as the
cranium makes contact with the road surface. ;-)

Its not physically possible for a bicyclist to land on his/her head.
The human body is specifically designed to prevent this.

--
Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a
legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton - Lancaster
University