This is from a London Assembly Liberal Democrats' press release. It
accords with my own experiences:

CYCLISTS THREE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO GET INJURED ON BENDY BUS ROUTE- POPE

Figures released this week by Liberal Democrat Transport spokesman on
the London Assembly, Geoff Pope, showed that cyclists in London are
three times more likely to get injured on a bendy bus route than on
conventional routes. Pedestrians are also twice as likely to get injured
on bendy bus routes. Commenting on the figures, Geoff Pope said:

“Cyclists are three times more likely to get injured on bendy bus routes
as opposed to conventional bus routes. Given there are only 345 bendy
buses, these numbers are worryingly high. We have had claims from
cyclists that they have been terrified to find themselves crowded against
safety barriers by bendy buses making left turns. Both
pedestrians and cyclists find it hard to judge the line the bus is going
to take. TfL have launched a costly advertising campaign about safer
cycling. But these figures show that the money would be better spent
stepping up safety training for drivers as well as a 'how is my driving'
hotline to report poor driving. TfL should order and urgent and full
review of bendy bus routes". Further details from


--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Jun 9, 2:48 am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
This is from a London Assembly Liberal Democrats' press release. It
accords with my own experiences:

A minion of Ken says:
"Many London bus routes, including conventional double-decker, travel
through much quieter, more residential areas, and so comparing
accident statistics for articulated or 'bendy' buses with figures for
the London bus network as a whole is not contrasting like with like."
http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_...eleaseid=12252

Which seems a fair point.

U

On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 03:19:14 -0700, Mr Thant wrote:

On Jun 9, 2:48 am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
[2 quoted lines suppressed]

A minion of Ken says:
"Many London bus routes, including conventional double-decker, travel
through much quieter, more residential areas, and so comparing
accident statistics for articulated or 'bendy' buses with figures for
the London bus network as a whole is not contrasting like with like."
http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_...eleaseid=12252

Which seems a fair point.

It is, but TFL have the statistics per route, so why didn't they rebuff on
a like for like basis instead of using that generalised cop-out statement?

Steve

On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 03:19:14 -0700, Mr Thant wrote:

This is from a London Assembly Liberal Democrats' press release. It
accords with my own experiences:

A minion of Ken says:
"Many London bus routes, including conventional double-decker, travel
through much quieter, more residential areas, and so comparing
accident statistics for articulated or 'bendy' buses with figures for
the London bus network as a whole is not contrasting like with like."
http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_...eleaseid=12252

Which seems a fair point.

Indeed. My first thought was that Mr Pope is discrediting his own
party by pushing such obviously flawed arguments.

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
We have had claims from cyclists that they have been terrified to find
themselves crowded against safety barriers by bendy buses making left
turns.

I have to say, as a cyclist, that in such situations the actions of the
cyclist are often contributory.

If the bendy bus is stationary in the lane, waiting to turn left, and the
cyclist rides up the inside of the line of traffic (i.e. overtaking on the
inside) and positions themself between the bus and the barrier, then they
are asking for trouble. They should be stopping behind the last stationary
vehicle in the traffic queue.

Similarly, if the cyclist is the first to arrive at the line, waiting to
turn left, and they sit in the gutter, adjacent to the barrier, then they
are not protecting themselves from other vehicles. In such situations, I
always position myself in the centre of the left-turn lane, to ensure that
no vehicle can pull up and sit to my right - they have to stop behind me and
wait for me to clear the corner before proceeding.

As a cyclist you have to foresee these situations and act accordingly.

In article .com,
(Mr Thant) wrote:

On Jun 9, 2:48 am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
This is from a London Assembly Liberal Democrats' press release.
It accords with my own experiences:

A minion of Ken says:
"Many London bus routes, including conventional double-decker,
travel through much quieter, more residential areas, and so comparing
accident statistics for articulated or 'bendy' buses with figures
for the London bus network as a whole is not contrasting like with
like." http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_...eleaseid=12252

Which seems a fair point.

Not entirely, as it tells us nothing about how different bus types get on
on the roads they share.

As a cyclist I find bendies a nightmare. Some of them even admit they are
a danger to cyclists by displaying yellow triangles on their rear near
sides. Yet they pull in on cyclists at the side of the road and are too
long for cyclists to safely pass them at most stops, unlike conventional
buses.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Steve ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

A minion of Ken says:
"Many London bus routes, including conventional double-decker, travel
through much quieter, more residential areas, and so comparing
accident statistics for articulated or 'bendy' buses with figures for
the London bus network as a whole is not contrasting like with like."
http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_...eleaseid=12252

Which seems a fair point.

It is, but TFL have the statistics per route, so why didn't they
rebuff on a like for like basis instead of using that generalised
cop-out statement?

Because they know that the before-and-after-bendification route stats will
shoot them in the foot?

In article . 131,
(Adrian) wrote:

Steve ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

A minion of Ken says:
"Many London bus routes, including conventional double-decker,
travel through much quieter, more residential areas, and so
comparing
accident statistics for articulated or 'bendy' buses with
figures for the London bus network as a whole is not contrasting
like with like."
http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_...eleaseid=12252

Which seems a fair point.

It is, but TFL have the statistics per route, so why didn't they
rebuff on a like for like basis instead of using that generalised
cop-out statement?

Because they know that the before-and-after-bendification route
stats will shoot them in the foot?

If so it would be worse than it looks. Haven't bus frequencies been
reduced in the conversion from double-deckers to bendies?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 12:46 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

As a cyclist I find bendies a nightmare. Some of them even admit they are
a danger to cyclists by displaying yellow triangles on their rear near
sides.

Presumably to discourage cyclists from overtaking the bus on the
nearside, as this is common, but extremely dangerous, practice with
any bus or indeed any other large vehicle.

It is more dangerous to do this on a bendy than a minibus, but one
should not do it on any kind of bus unless there is a marked cycle
lane there in which to perform the manoeuvre. Even if there is,
overtaking such a vehicle on the left that is indicating to turn left
is blind stupidity, but again alarmingly common.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 12:46 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

As a cyclist I find bendies a nightmare. Some of them even admit
they are a danger to cyclists by displaying yellow triangles on
their rear near sides.

Presumably to discourage cyclists from overtaking the bus on the
nearside, as this is common, but extremely dangerous, practice with
any bus or indeed any other large vehicle.

It is more dangerous to do this on a bendy than a minibus, but one
should not do it on any kind of bus unless there is a marked cycle
lane there in which to perform the manoeuvre. Even if there is,
overtaking such a vehicle on the left that is indicating to turn
left is blind stupidity, but again alarmingly common.

It's more often the other way round (other than in almost stationary
traffic when in effect cycles are moving ion a virtual lane). Buses cut
in on cyclists. Some cycle lanes actively encourage it by stopping at bus
stops.

--
Colin Rosenstiel