"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

Yes there are benefits for TfL from Oyster but a lot of those are about
providing a better service and more tailored fares products for
passengers. These should encourage usage of public transport -
especially off peak - and isn't this something that is considered to be
"a good thing"?

What are these more tailored fares products? I've not seen any new form of
ticket available on Oyster that I couldn't get on a paper ticket. The 2003
fares in 2004 and reduced off-peak fares could have been introduced for
paper ticket users, but were reserved for Oyster to encourage take up and
presumably to enable a "78% of trips made on LU are done with Oyster, isn't
it a success" poster campaign (no doubt with a picture of Smiling Ken on it,
as if he had anything to do with it).

Dave.

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:53:43 -0000, "Dave Liney"
wrote:


What are these more tailored fares products? I've not seen any new form of
ticket available on Oyster that I couldn't get on a paper ticket. The 2003

What about cheap tube fares at the weekend? Maximum single 1.00 pound
outside Zone 1, 1.80 including Zone 1.

"Dave Liney" typed



"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

Yes there are benefits for TfL from Oyster but a lot of those are about
providing a better service and more tailored fares products for
passengers. These should encourage usage of public transport -
especially off peak - and isn't this something that is considered to be
"a good thing"?

What are these more tailored fares products? I've not seen any new form of
ticket available on Oyster that I couldn't get on a paper ticket. The 2003
fares in 2004 and reduced off-peak fares could have been introduced for
paper ticket users, but were reserved for Oyster to encourage take up and
presumably to enable a "78% of trips made on LU are done with Oyster, isn't
it a success" poster campaign (no doubt with a picture of Smiling Ken on it,
as if he had anything to do with it).

Dave.


Single Weekend Tube fares are *much* cheaper on Oyster Pre Pay than
standard 2003 fares. They are not available any other way AFAIK. Shame I
couldn't get this last Sunday as the LUL staff I patiently queued for
didn't have a clue.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:53:43 -0000, "Dave Liney"
wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .

Yes there are benefits for TfL from Oyster but a lot of those are about
providing a better service and more tailored fares products for
passengers. These should encourage usage of public transport -
especially off peak - and isn't this something that is considered to be
"a good thing"?

What are these more tailored fares products? I've not seen any new form of
ticket available on Oyster that I couldn't get on a paper ticket. The 2003
fares in 2004 and reduced off-peak fares could have been introduced for
paper ticket users, but were reserved for Oyster to encourage take up and
presumably to enable a "78% of trips made on LU are done with Oyster, isn't
it a success" poster campaign (no doubt with a picture of Smiling Ken on it,
as if he had anything to do with it).

Well when we did the spec we allowed for off peak discounted fares,
against the peak flow discounted pricing, through ticketing on one fare
for bus to bus or bus to tube as well as One Day tickets on the card
etc. These are quite complex products and will not be introduced on day
one but I expect some of them to emerge in time - the Long Term TfL
Fares Policy document suggests that they will.

Capping wasn't something we thought of initially but fares policy in
London has changed considerably since Ken took over. Also I expect the
idea of capping to One Day prices emerged from market research into how
people would react to a Stored Value product. Certainly before Oyster
emerged it was clear from questions on this group that people were
reticent to commit to a stored value card if they ran the risk of
"overpaying" relative to a One Day ticket they were already familiar
with.

There are further big changes proposed with a big increase in
interavailability with National Rail routes - this being partly linked
to the development of the Overground Network.

Of course there is an incentive to get people onto Oyster - it is about
reducing the need to queue and allowing the card and gates to do the
fare calculation. Unless the ticket machine fare tables have been
re-engineered (and they might have been) then it is not possible to have
differentially priced single fares for the peak and off peak. Well it
*is* but everyone would have to buy tickets from ticket offices which is
not exactly a good idea.

As for a Ken poster then so what? He's in charge now - he wasn't when we
designed the system and negotiated the contract. When did issues like
that ever stop a politician taking the credit for current events?
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 23:35:14 +0000, Bob Adams
wrote:

In message , Ben and Michiyo
writes
You should only swipe once for going in and once going out. If you can not
make sure you are only charged for one journey and if not ring the
oystercard helpline to be refunded.

Will somebody please explain to me how an Oyster card is an improvement
over a travel card _from a regular commuter passengers point of view_ ?

A travel card just works. No phoning, no unnecessary swiping, no
overcharging, no stress. Is an Oyster truly an improvement for anybody
else other than LUL? If not, why is everybody playing along with this
charade?

I guess three main reasons...

(1) So long as I just go on having the same travelcard that I've
always had, but on an Oyster card, very little changes. I get a
plastic ticket instead of a paper one, I keep the same bit of plastic
when I renew it, and I touch it at barriers instead of putting it in a
slot. Otherwise I use my travelcard just the same way as I always did

(2) Despite some uncertainties and confusion about how it works in
every case, pre-pay should save me hassle: one cash payment in advance
and then I just meticulously touch my card whenever I go out of zone,
instead of having to mess around buying extension tickets. In my
case, the real value from pre-pay will come when I can use Oyster
pre-pay at East Finchley for pay-and-display car parking, a paper from
the newsagents at the front of the station, and an espresso from café
mobile just outside, as well as for my extension fare...

(3) I fund LU through both my council tax and my season ticket -
so if it saves LU money, either by more efficient ticketing or by
reducing fraud, it saves me money as well

Martin

On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:36:20 -0000, "Ben and Michiyo"
wrote:

You should only swipe once for going in and once going out. If you can not
make sure you are only charged for one journey and if not ring the
oystercard helpline to be refunded.


That isn't possible though. You have to swipe in as you enter the DLR
(or you could get caught for not having a valid ticket); the
instructions say you should swipe out as you leae the DLR; and then
you must swipe in as you get on the tube (to open the gates).

It shouldn't be the cardholders resposibility to phone up to get
refunded.

The process of Station evacuation has not been resolved and staff have yet
to be informed what to do.

Another flaw in the "charge full fare" policy? I don't know how they
could do it without charging some people incorrectly if they don't
swipe in and out (if they had closed gates at al stations and no
"holes" it would be OK) but is charging the maximum fare a fair way to
do it - *very* few people would actually make a journey on prepay
which would actually cost the maximum fare so maybe it would be better
to charge a more typical fare?