In message , at 19:54:11
on Mon, 23 Jan 2012, Roger Traviss
remarked:
I cannot find anything similar for hotel quotes, though.

In America, on goods subject to sales taxes, practically 100% of pricing is
always without local, state taxes. They are added at the time of payment.

I've got a bill in front of me here from the Hilton at LA airport and
every day has two line items:

Guest room $159.00
Room taxes $ 22.35

I expect the rate I was quoted was $159.00, as that sounds a much
rounder figure than $179.35 (although some might say not as round as
$160).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 12:22:26 on Tue, 24 Jan
2012, d remarked:
Supposedly the #1 coin was only slightly more expensive to produce whilst
being expected to last 50x as long ...

No doubt. But they're a pain to carry. Notes are much more convenient.

Notes are difficult to stuff in parking meters and supermarket trolleys.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 12:32:45 on Tue, 24 Jan
2012, Roland Perry remarked:
I've got a bill in front of me here from the Hilton at LA airport and
every day has two line items:

Guest room $159.00
Room taxes $ 22.35

I expect the rate I was quoted was $159.00, as that sounds a much
rounder figure than $179.35

cough $181.35

(although some might say not as round as $160).

--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:34:29 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:22:26 on Tue, 24 Jan
2012, d remarked:
Supposedly the #1 coin was only slightly more expensive to produce whilst
being expected to last 50x as long ...

No doubt. But they're a pain to carry. Notes are much more convenient.

Notes are difficult to stuff in parking meters and supermarket trolleys.

Well if councils have their way that won't be an issue soon anyway as we'll
all be phoning premium rate numbers to pay for parking.

FWIW one doesn't get pay-to-use trolleys at Waitrose. You must shop at some
right chavvy places

B2003

In message , at 12:57:51 on Tue, 24 Jan
2012, d remarked:
FWIW one doesn't get pay-to-use trolleys at Waitrose. You must shop at some
right chavvy places

Oddly enough, the first place I ever encountered them was at the
Waitrose in Wokingham! Although it was a Safeway at the time.
--
Roland Perry

John Levine wrote:

Proximity card. A tiny transponder and chip are built into the card.
RFID technology.

No, it's contactless EMV which is not RFID.

Please do at least a few milliseconds of research before guessing.

They aren't proximity cards? The standard is IEC 14443, which has
the "proximity cards" in its title. The standard doesn't define a
technology that uses radio frequencies in identification?

Sorry, I thought RFID could be used, generically, to describe any
proximity card that used radio frequencies in identification technology,
but perhaps you can explain how the term is incorrect when used to
describe technologies involving radio frequencies and identificaiton.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding entirely. Is sonar involved, perhaps?
Maybe infra-red?

Do tell us, John Levine, why I cannot use RFID generically to describe
a proximity card identification device that uses radio frequencies.

wrote:

The question yet to be answered is how to verify a passenger's length
of journey on distance-based fare commuter rail systems. On regional
rapid transit, they do so by having turnstiles at both entry and exit,
so the exit turnstile verifies the ticket is valid for the distance
travelled.

Instructions to the passenger with proximity cards or magnetic cards on a
system with fare zones, with or without barriers are straightforward. The
passenger is required to tap on (if proximity card) or dip/insert/swipe his
magnetic card at the entry station. If there is a barrier, the mechanism
is built into the fare gate. If there is no barrier, the passenger is
required to find the validation machine on the platform.

His account is then debited the maximum amount based on the pair of fare
zones between that station and the more expensive end of the line.

If he taps out at the destination station (or dips/inserts/swipes), his
debit transaction is recalculated.

This was the design of the earliest systems, like IC's Litton System and
the similar Cubic systems at BART and WMATA. However, IC never had
"add fare" machines, so if he rode beyond his zone, his ticket was rejected
and the faregate remained locked. He'd have to call the PAL center using
the orange ex-payphone, which would then release the gate. After a few
years, conductors resumed inspecting tickets on their own initiative to
reduce underpayments and fraud.

Metra Electric (ex-IC) no longer has faregates. It still has vending
machines, however.

It was possible to cheat by using different magnetic cards for entry and
exit for minimum zone charges on either end.

The IC monthly pass wasn't an unlimited ride pass, but valid for 60 rides.

BART and WMATA didn't have unlimited ride passes in the beginning.
(They still don't today, right?)

I don't know what a transit system would do if it simply sold unlimited
ride passes with no credit bank to debit from. Does anyone know of
an example? In Chicago, one type of CTA Cubic fare media, Chicago Card Plus,
can be used for both single trips and monthly passes. It's linked to a
credit card. The monthly pass is applied to the card after debiting the
fee from the credit bank, and can also be used at the same time to pay the
single fare for accompanying passengers, although just one pass can be
encoded on it at a time.

As this account has a credit bank, if it were used for zone fares (which
CTA no longer has), it could easily be used to pay for the zone charge
using the logic I described earlier.

But on various large commuter rail networks there are no turnstiles.
Adding turnstiles would cost a fortune, not only in their direct cost,
but modifying walkways at all stations to fence off the paid area. At
the downtown terminals there is little space for turnstiles,
especially enough to handle the crowds emerging from a train.
Pennsylvania Station would be especially complex because many tracks
are used by three different railroads (Amk, NJT, LIRR), and there are
various concourses and stairs connecting to the platforms, including
oddball ones.

So fare validating machines would have to be installed on platforms at
the downtown terminal and inside the concourse. Barriers aren't required.
Getting the technology right isn't the biggest obstacle, but getting all
affected agencies to play nice with each other so their passengers don't
have to carry multiple forms of identification for inter-carrier trips
is more the difficult bit.

In message , at 14:13:48 on Tue, 24 Jan
2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:
They aren't proximity cards? The standard is IEC 14443, which has
the "proximity cards" in its title. The standard doesn't define a
technology that uses radio frequencies in identification?

Sorry, I thought RFID could be used, generically, to describe any
proximity card that used radio frequencies in identification technology

Apparently not. The name seems to be PICC, with RFID reserved for tags
which are (broadly speaking) electronic serial numbers.

Looking at http://www.rfid.org/, there's a conspicuous absence of
anything to do with "paywave" credit cards or ICAO passports.

(But note that a US passport *card* does seem to qualify as an RFID due
to its very limited capabilities).

That doesn't mean that in the popular press the terms aren't often
blurred.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote

at 19:40:08 on Mon, 23 Jan 2012, Michael R N Dolbear remarked
:
Finally, there is a non-trivial cost to securely storing and
transporting cash to the bank for deposit and to keeping enough
coins and smaller notes on hand to make change.

Those are the elements which make up the "1%" (rather than "0%")
quoted as the typical cost of accepting cash, versus the "2%" for

cards.

In fact this misses that banks /charge/ businesses that pay in large
quantities of cash, especially coin.

sigh that's where much of the 1% comes from.

Indeed, but what you posted didn't in fact include it in "the elements"
and, since many are unaware that such a charge even exists I felt it
should be explicit.

I wonder how many retail businesses accept only plastic ?


--
Mike D

In message 01ccdaab$a5cdea20$LocalHost@default, at 15:22:47 on Tue, 24
Jan 2012, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:

I wonder how many retail businesses accept only plastic ?

It's quite difficult to buy airline tickets with cash (notwithstanding
the alarms bells that would ring at Homeland Security). My lawyer and
realtor don't accept cash, and I've often encountered railway ticket
vending machines where the banknote facility was broken, and only cards
would work.
--
Roland Perry