"Stephen Sprunk" wrote in message ...

On 27-Feb-12 16:31, R J Cardy wrote:
Possibly a simplification - A dispute may not result in a chargeback,
e.g. I contact my card issuer and dispute a £12 transaction. As this
transaction is below the Visa/MCI chargeback limit my Issuer swallows
the charge. (This assumes Issuer and Acquirer are not the same).

In the US, the customer is responsible for the first USD50 of each
fraudulent transaction, though some issuing banks _choose_ to refund
that as well. That's where merchants' "floor" of USD50 comes from: they
will get that much even from fraudulent transactions, as long as they're
not determined to be complicit in the fraud. If they are, their
processor will indeed charge them back.

Thank you for the local view. Visa/MCI are international clubs and their
rules have varying types of floor limits amongst them the merchant floor
limit you quote and the chargeback limit that I quoted. In the case that I
quoted the merchant would get paid and as the amount is below the chargeback
limit I would get refunded. Handling chargebacks, which involving obtaining
'paperwork' from the merchant to resolve the dispute costs money and in some
cases it is cheaper to refund hence the VISA/MCI chargeback limits

Richard

In message , at 13:38:33 on Mon, 27 Feb
2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked:
If the card company finds in favour of the consumer, I'm sure the
merchant doesn't get paid,

The merchant was _already_ paid, so if the dispute is resolved in favor
of the consumer _and_ the merchant is liable for the fraud, the
merchant's account is charged back.

It's not always a fraud. Chargebacks can arise because an item is "lost
in the mail".

And when I say "merchant doesn't get paid", that's obviously a
reflection on the situation after the chargeback has been received, not
a comment on the short term flow of what are only semi-cleared funds.
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:32:17 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
wrote:
Uh, always? What do you do at a fuel station which requires a credit
card before dispensing fuel, or at a restaurant, when the tip amount
to be charged is not known until later

In the latter case, you usually enter the tip into the machine before
giving your PIN.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 08:25:13 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:
There's still a way for waiters to 'game' the system. If they hand
the
terminal to the customer after themselves entering a zero tip, the
customer is "forced" to leave a cash tip (or query the lack of tip,
which hardly ever seems to happen).

Or to leave nothing.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

on Tue, 28 Feb 2012, Neil Williams remarked:
There's still a way for waiters to 'game' the system. If they hand
the terminal to the customer after themselves entering a zero tip,
the customer is "forced" to leave a cash tip (or query the lack of
tip, which hardly ever seems to happen).

Or to leave nothing.

Which is what tends to happen if I'm the customer. If I'm paying by card
it's probably because I don't have suitable cash on me. But it doesn't
bother me because I assume it's the waiter gaming the system and losing,
and that was his choice.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
at 13:38:33 on Mon, 27 Feb 2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked:

If the card company finds in favour of the consumer, I'm sure the
merchant doesn't get paid,

The merchant was _already_ paid, so if the dispute is resolved in favor
of the consumer _and_ the merchant is liable for the fraud, the
merchant's account is charged back.

It's not always a fraud. Chargebacks can arise because an item is "lost
in the mail".

Unless it's FOB, the courier works for the merchant. Delivery is part
of the purchase and title hasn't changed hands until received. Assuming
the buyer himself isn't committing fraud, that's not unreasonable.

Neil Williams wrote:
"Adam H. Kerman" wrote:

Uh, always? What do you do at a fuel station which requires a credit
card before dispensing fuel, or at a restaurant, when the tip amount
to be charged is not known until later

In the latter case, you usually enter the tip into the machine before
giving your PIN.

Interesting. Thank you.

Is the terminal the waiter brings to your table exchanging telemetry
wirelessly during the transaction, or does it have to be plugged into
a base station elsewhere in the restaurant? I assume it's wireless.

Are they robust enough to be used where fare collection with a hand-
held device is warranted, if gawd forbid we talk about transport, or
would a more robust hand-held device be used on trains?

In message , at 13:24:29 on Tue, 28 Feb
2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:
Is the terminal the waiter brings to your table exchanging telemetry
wirelessly during the transaction, or does it have to be plugged into
a base station elsewhere in the restaurant? I assume it's wireless.

They are connected wirelessly (to a base within the retailer's
premises), Bluetooth apparently:

http://www.paymentsense.co.uk/card-processing/perfect-
terminal/portable-terminals/

Are they robust enough to be used where fare collection with a hand-
held device is warranted, if gawd forbid we talk about transport, or
would a more robust hand-held device be used on trains?

Outwardly similar devices are available (they don't use regular retail
handhelds communicating with a base station on the train):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avantix_Mobile
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
at 13:24:29 on Tue, 28 Feb 2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:

Is the terminal the waiter brings to your table exchanging telemetry
wirelessly during the transaction, or does it have to be plugged into
a base station elsewhere in the restaurant? I assume it's wireless.

They are connected wirelessly (to a base within the retailer's
premises), Bluetooth apparently:

http://www.paymentsense.co.uk/card-p...ble-terminals/

Hm. I see they have versions that work with both local wireless networks
and mobile data networks.

Are they robust enough to be used where fare collection with a hand-
held device is warranted, if gawd forbid we talk about transport, or
would a more robust hand-held device be used on trains?

Outwardly similar devices are available (they don't use regular retail
handhelds communicating with a base station on the train):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avantix_Mobile

Right. I didn't think those were wireless devices.

I wasn't thinking about ticket-printing machines, per se, but getting
back to another discussion we had in which the credit card number itself is
used as the ticket medium and the passenger gets billed for all passage
at the end of the month.

I suppose the devices used in restaurants wouldn't survive being
dropped onto a hard surface outdoors.

In message , at 14:13:12 on Tue, 28 Feb
2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:
I suppose the devices used in restaurants wouldn't survive being
dropped onto a hard surface outdoors.

Not inevitable. I wonder if they work after being flushed down the
toilet or thrown in a barbecue ?
--
Roland Perry