In message , at 11:01:57 on Mon, 5 Mar 2012,
Stephen Sprunk remarked:
A lot of credit card holders use them in effect as charge cards, as a
substitute for the "monthly credit" that the middle classes used to get
from tradesmen.

I've never heard of "monthly credit"

It's the classic way tradesmen dealt with householders. Supplying them
goods with a single bill at the end of the month.

In commerce it's even more common, with a chain of such agreements
between manufacturer, wholesaler and retailer.

--
Roland Perry

On Mar 3, 3:45*am, Roland Perry wrote:

The difference is that someone with a credit card has been shown to be
eligible for credit *at all*. All you are doing is allowing a slightly
elastic limit. The debit cards are for people who don't qualify for
credit, either because of their age or their history.

My bank switched its ATM cards to debit cards. If I want to access an
ATM to get cash, I must use my debit card.

To protect myself, I set the limit for credit card use to be very
low. That is, if someone steals my debit card and tries to use it as
a normal credit card, they won't be able to buy too much due to the
low limit.

Of course, there are robberies where the victim is forced to use their
ATM card to withdraw cash for the robbers at gunpoint. If, for
whatever, the victim is unable to do this (too scared to remember PIN,
not enough cash in account, etc.), the victim may get shot.

Many stores seem to welcome a debit card used as such (PIN required)
over a credit card. They will give the customer "cash back" (add it
on the purchase amount), something they do not do on credit card
purchases. Presumably they are charged less by the clearing house on
debit card transactions.

On Mar 3, 3:45*pm, Stephen Sprunk wrote:

(* My personal rule is that one should never be paying for something
after one has finished using it. *So, credit only makes sense for things
like education, housing, durable goods, etc. *Not for train tickets,
certainly.)

My personal rule is the cost of the transaction. If there is no
charge to use the credit card when the bill is paid in full on time
(which is usually the case), then the credit card is a nice
convenience for a variety of reasons. In addition, some banks give
bonus points for heavy use of the card.


Returning to trains, at a recent train show, the merchants had radio
based credit card validators. They were wholly self contained and
didn't require WiFi or anything else. A power outlet was nice to
charge the battery but not necessary.

writes:

Many stores seem to welcome a debit card used as such (PIN required)
over a credit card. They will give the customer "cash back" (add it
on the purchase amount), something they do not do on credit card
purchases. Presumably they are charged less by the clearing house on
debit card transactions.

Also it reduced the amount of cash that they have to count and bank.

In message
, at
09:44:06 on Mon, 5 Mar 2012, remarked:
My bank switched its ATM cards to debit cards. If I want to access an
ATM to get cash, I must use my debit card.

To protect myself, I set the limit for credit card use to be very
low.

In the UK I think legislation limits the consumer's risk to £50.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry writes:

In message , at 23:06:12 on Sun, 4 Mar 2012,
Phil remarked:
Un-manned petrol stations are quite common on the continent. Tescos are
pay at pump only at night.

On the Continent? I've done many pay-at-pump transactions at Tesco in UK
during the day.

There are two ways to parse the above quote:

1. Tesco offers pay-at-the-pump at night only.

2. At night, Tesco only offers pay-at-the-pump.

I assumed he meant the latter, i.e. that pay-at-the-pump is also
available during the day in addition to some other option(s).

Number 2 is what I meant.

ASDA operates like that too.
Most do, but a lot of Asda filling stations are Pay-at-Pump only at all
times. There are no staff, no shop, no means to pay cash.

Phil

On 04/03/2012 21:22, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:32:34 on Sun, 4 Mar 2012,
Stephen Sprunk remarked:
One of the biggest differences between pubs is whether they allow "run a
tab", or "run a tab if they hold your card", or of course ask for
payment with order.

Right. And, at least in the US, if you run a tab on your card, they
authorize the card for some round amount, eg. USD 50, before serving
your order.

Not in the UK. They just hold your card hostage without doing anything
with it (which would probably require a PIN anyway).

Actually, some places in the UK will pre-authorise your card, if you ask
to open a tab. Then when you settle up at the end, you pay the actual
total. I've had this happen in the Hungry Horse chain, for example. I
think I prefer that to having my card held hostage, as it would be too
easy for someone to clone it while out of my control.


--
Clive Page

Roland Perry writes:

There is no way to know by looking at the card number whether it does.

That's what we *could* do in the UK, by recognising a card as "Solo"
or "Electron". Now that they are branded as "VISA debit", it's
probably not possible to tell, although the cards are still incapable
(in theory) of pushing the bank account into overdraft. What we
haven't established in this conversation yet is how the banks achieve
that Indian Rope Trick if people buy something from (eg) a vending
machine that isn't online.

The machines in shops do know the card type, thats how the cashier
knows to ask if you want cashback or not (the machine prompts them).
They only ask if it is a debit card, not a credit card.

With the new ones an offline machine will probably refuse to accept
them.

In most cases, and it should be all, the cashier doesn't handle the
card and will not always see it before you put it into the machine.
Even then it will only be a glance.

Phil

In message , at 18:37:52 on Mon, 5 Mar 2012,
Phil remarked:
a lot of Asda filling stations are Pay-at-Pump only at all
times. There are no staff, no shop, no means to pay cash.

The one near me sells only petrol, and is open 24x7 unmanned during the
wee small hours.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 19:09:19 on Mon, 5 Mar
2012, Clive Page remarked:
Not in the UK. They just hold your card hostage without doing anything
with it (which would probably require a PIN anyway).

Actually, some places in the UK will pre-authorise your card, if you
ask to open a tab. Then when you settle up at the end, you pay the
actual total. I've had this happen in the Hungry Horse chain, for
example. I think I prefer that to having my card held hostage, as it
would be too easy for someone to clone it while out of my control.

I don't think there have been any recorded instances of cloned C&P cards
at all, let alone in that sort of scenario.
--
Roland Perry