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#861
March 19th 12, 03:24 PM
posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.americas
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card numbers, was cards, was E-ZPass, was CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
In message , at 11:10:46 on Mon, 19 Mar
2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked: Where the only debit cards not accepted are Solo and Electron (and where I think the "some also accept..." should really read: "a very few might also accept..."). The discussion was about Visa debit cards, which supposedly had the stigma of only being possessed by people who couldn't get a credit card. Debit cards in general, but especially Solo and Electron debit cards. What I agree we didn't get to the bottom of is how the card companies can issue 'normal' VISA debit cards while also promising the cardholder that they (the cardholder) will not be allowed to overdraw. -- Roland Perry |
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#862
March 19th 12, 03:26 PM
posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.americas
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card numbers, was cards, was E-ZPass, was CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
In message , at 11:10:46 on Mon, 19 Mar
2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked: Even if that wasn't EMV, it's just a matter of time until someone figures out how to do it. In the mean time, it's so unlikely, especially if the objective is stealing a few train tickets, that we can discount it. Unlikely? It's a certainty. I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already done so and just hasn't publicized that fact--for obvious reasons. It's not the kind of secret that would keep very well. -- Roland Perry |
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#863
March 19th 12, 03:30 PM
posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.americas
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card numbers, was cards, was E-ZPass, was CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
In message , at 11:10:46 on Mon, 19 Mar
2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked: your entire country is smaller than some of our "service areas". Remember that the US has roughly twice the area of the entire EU, so our "domestic" is your "international". I thought you said that the USA didn't have service areas any more, just national coverage thanks to the domestic roaming agreements. -- Roland Perry |
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#864
March 19th 12, 03:44 PM
posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.americas
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card numbers, was cards, was E-ZPass, was CharlieCards v.v. Oyster(and Octopus?)
On 19/03/2012 16:24, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 11:10:46 on Mon, 19 Mar 2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked: Where the only debit cards not accepted are Solo and Electron (and where I think the "some also accept..." should really read: "a very few might also accept..."). The discussion was about Visa debit cards, which supposedly had the stigma of only being possessed by people who couldn't get a credit card. Debit cards in general, but especially Solo and Electron debit cards. There's no stigma about Visa debit cards at all - any stigma would apply to Solo and Electron cards, but Solo cards are no longer issued, and Electron cards are now pretty hard to come by (one more or less has to actively seek them out). Most banks that used to issue Electron cards now issue Visa Debit cards with zero-floor limits. What I agree we didn't get to the bottom of is how the card companies can issue 'normal' VISA debit cards while also promising the cardholder that they (the cardholder) will not be allowed to overdraw. They don't offer an absolute promise that the cardholder cannot go overdrawn. |
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#865
March 19th 12, 04:28 PM
posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.americas
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card numbers, was cards, was E-ZPass, was CharlieCards v.v. Oyster(and Octopus?)
On 19-Mar-12 11:24, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:10:46 on Mon, 19 Mar 2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked: Where the only debit cards not accepted are Solo and Electron (and where I think the "some also accept..." should really read: "a very few might also accept..."). The discussion was about Visa debit cards, which supposedly had the stigma of only being possessed by people who couldn't get a credit card. Debit cards in general, but especially Solo and Electron debit cards. What I agree we didn't get to the bottom of is how the card companies can issue 'normal' VISA debit cards while also promising the cardholder that they (the cardholder) will not be allowed to overdraw. A debit card works no differently, from the network's or merchant's perspective, from a credit card. The merchant requests authorization for a particular amount, and the issuing bank either accepts or declines the transaction. If the merchant posts a transaction without authorization, it may be declined and the merchant may not get paid. Either card type may be declined if the issuing bank sees the customer has insufficient funds, whether such funds are drawn from a debit account or a credit account. S -- Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking |
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#866
March 19th 12, 04:29 PM
posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.americas
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card numbers, was cards, was E-ZPass, was CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
In message , at 16:44:39 on Mon, 19 Mar
2012, Mizter T remarked: There's no stigma about Visa debit cards at al A cultural thing. Most banks that used to issue Electron cards now issue Visa Debit cards with zero-floor limits. Maybe that's how they... What I agree we didn't get to the bottom of is how the card companies can issue 'normal' VISA debit cards while also promising the cardholder that they (the cardholder) will not be allowed to overdraw. They don't offer an absolute promise that the cardholder cannot go overdrawn. fsvo "absolute": http://www.hsbc.co.uk/1/2/under18s "You can't go overdrawn, so don't worry – you can't spend more than you have available" -- Roland Perry |
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#867
March 19th 12, 04:37 PM
posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.americas
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card numbers, was cards, was E-ZPass, was CharlieCards v.v. Oyster(and Octopus?)
On 19-Mar-12 11:30, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:10:46 on Mon, 19 Mar 2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked: your entire country is smaller than some of our "service areas". Remember that the US has roughly twice the area of the entire EU, so our "domestic" is your "international". I thought you said that the USA didn't have service areas any more, just national coverage thanks to the domestic roaming agreements. We were discussing 1G service, which no longer exists. "Service areas" mostly went away with 2G service and free domestic roaming; the only obvious remainder is they determine which area code your number is from. (The FCC prohibits allocating separate area codes to mobile carriers, claiming that would be "discriminatory", so their numbers come from the same geographical area codes as land lines. This causes many problems and, in the end, hurts consumers.) S -- Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking |
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#868
March 19th 12, 04:38 PM
posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.americas
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card numbers, was cards, was E-ZPass, was CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
In message , at 12:28:11 on Mon, 19 Mar
2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked: What I agree we didn't get to the bottom of is how the card companies can issue 'normal' VISA debit cards while also promising the cardholder that they (the cardholder) will not be allowed to overdraw. A debit card works no differently, from the network's or merchant's perspective, from a credit card. The merchant requests authorization for a particular amount, and the issuing bank either accepts or declines the transaction. If the merchant posts a transaction without authorization, it may be declined and the merchant may not get paid. Either card type may be declined if the issuing bank sees the customer has insufficient funds, whether such funds are drawn from a debit account or a credit account. sigh but we don't (here in the UK anyway) live in a world where every transaction is authorised. -- Roland Perry |
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#869
March 19th 12, 04:45 PM
posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.americas
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card numbers, was cards, was E-ZPass, was CharlieCards v.v. Oyster(and Octopus?)
On 19-Mar-12 12:38, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:28:11 on Mon, 19 Mar 2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked: What I agree we didn't get to the bottom of is how the card companies can issue 'normal' VISA debit cards while also promising the cardholder that they (the cardholder) will not be allowed to overdraw. A debit card works no differently, from the network's or merchant's perspective, from a credit card. The merchant requests authorization for a particular amount, and the issuing bank either accepts or declines the transaction. If the merchant posts a transaction without authorization, it may be declined and the merchant may not get paid. Either card type may be declined if the issuing bank sees the customer has insufficient funds, whether such funds are drawn from a debit account or a credit account. sigh but we don't (here in the UK anyway) live in a world where every transaction is authorised. That's why I said "If the merchant posts a transaction without authorization, it may be declined and the merchant may not get paid." It's very simple. I don't understand why you keep trying to make it more complicated than it is. S -- Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking |
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#870
March 19th 12, 05:18 PM
posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.americas
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card numbers, was cards, was E-ZPass, was CharlieCards v.v. Oyster (and Octopus?)
In message , at 12:45:12 on Mon, 19 Mar
2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked: Either card type may be declined if the issuing bank sees the customer has insufficient funds, whether such funds are drawn from a debit account or a credit account. sigh but we don't (here in the UK anyway) live in a world where every transaction is authorised. That's why I said "If the merchant posts a transaction without authorization, it may be declined and the merchant may not get paid." It's very simple. I don't understand why you keep trying to make it more complicated than it is. Because I'm not convinced that accepting a debit card which passes the C&P PIN, but is later declined because of lack of funds, is at the retailer's risk. -- Roland Perry |
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