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German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators - The Guardian
Not just in Britain, then!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/02/german-fare-dodgers-public-transport German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators guardian.co.uk, Thursday 2 February 2012 17.10 GMT Germany's system is built on the obedience of travellers, but online services to help fare dodgers are changing attitudes It is one of the things that never fails to amaze visitors to Germany: how come there are no barriers at tube stations? "It could never work back home," proclaim tourists from less law-abiding nations, notably Britain. "No one would bother paying." About 3.5% of journeys on German public transport are not paid for, according to statistics from the Association of German Transport Operators (VDV). In less compliant Berlin, it is 6%. That might not sound a lot to the cynical visitor, but it's too much for the VDV, which is demanding harsher punishments for fare dodgers: an increase in on-the-spot fines from €40 to €60 (£50), and €120 for repeat offenders. The association believes the current fine doesn't deter schwarzfahrer ("black riders") who take their chances without a ticket. The €40 fine equates to 17 journeys in Berlin, where it is sometimes possible to go for weeks, if not months, without being checked, depending on which line is used. The VDV is also outraged at an internet "service" launched in one German city to help fare dodgers evade ticket inspectors' sporadic checks. The MVV Blitzer (can't find working web link - KB)warns passengers in Munich where and when the usually plain-clothed inspectors are working and what they are wearing. Oliver Wolff from the VDV is worried that not paying is becoming socially acceptable in Germany. "It's now got to the point where potential fare dodgers are organising themselves and helping each other online. It's this sort of open activity that is making travelling without a valid ticket seem less harmful," he told the Süddeutsche Zeitung. The VDV claims fare dodging costs transport companies up to €250m a year. A further €100m is spent on ticket inspectors. Although Germany is generally thought of as an obedient nation, exceptions do seem to apply on certain issues, especially those to do with motoring. Radio bulletins regularly include blitzermeldungen (flash warnings), which tell drivers where speed cameras appear to be working on any given day. END QUOTE http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/02/german-fare-dodgers-public-transport |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators- The Guardian
On Feb 3, 12:31*pm, Bruce wrote:
Although Germany is generally thought of as an obedient nation, exceptions do seem to apply on certain issues, especially those to do with motoring. Radio bulletins regularly include blitzermeldungen (flash warnings), which tell drivers where speed cameras appear to be working on any given day. And in the UK the authorities often put them on the Web in a kind-of "fair play" type move. The Swiss people I talk to are amazed that they do this. Neil |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators- The Guardian
On Feb 3, 12:31*pm, Bruce wrote:
About 3.5% of journeys on German public transport are not paid for, according to statistics from the Association of German Transport Operators (VDV). In less compliant Berlin, it is 6%. That might not sound a lot to the cynical visitor, but it's too much for the VDV, which is demanding harsher punishments for fare dodgers: an increase in on-the-spot fines from €40 to €60 (£50), and €120 for repeat offenders. That seems a good idea, so long as some discretion is possible for genuine cases (e.g. if you forget your personalised[1] season ticket, and get PFed, you can get the money back against an admin fee). Generally, in an open system, the PF should be set at a level that fare dodging doesn't cause a loss to the operator. If that's the case, they can just stop worrying about it. [1] Or smartcard, where it is possible to prove that it wasn't used. That would require touching in to be mandatory even for season tickets, though, with a PF of some sort (a lesser one, I guess) for not doing. Neil |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators - The Guardian
Bruce schrieb: Not just in Britain, then! Of course. It is one of the things that never fails to amaze visitors to Germany: how come there are no barriers at tube stations? "It could never work back home," proclaim tourists from less law-abiding nations, notably Britain. "No one would bother paying." Similar commentary is issued about unarmed police officers by visitors of Britain, even if the crime rate at home is similar to Britain's. But back to the story: Of course they would, if monthly tickets are cheap and easily available, and the ticket check frequency is high enough. About 3.5% of journeys on German public transport are not paid for, according to statistics from the Association of German Transport Operators (VDV). Which means: 70 - 75% of the trips are on monthly or similar tickets anyway, and of the remaining riders, about 15% ride without a ticket. I would expect a much lower percentage of monthly or similar tickets in Britain, and thus, a very similar share of fare dodgers. The main difference is, that our adventurous youngsters are typically holding a school/education ticket anyway. But transport company managers or journalists are mentally uncapable of spotting that quite decisive difference. In less compliant Berlin, it is 6%. If the BVG doesn't get its TVMs fixed, I'll be among the 6%. I might ride with a ticket, normally, but I'm as impatient as other Berliners. While the user interface of the new units is rather well done, the coin/bill acceptance units are junk. As well, the percentage /had to/ rise, following the introduction of "boarding at the front only" accompanied by the pullback of ticket inspectors. If the buses are for free, many people might try in the connecting trains, too, especially if most of their travel is "bus". That might not sound a lot to the cynical visitor, but it's too much for the VDV, which is demanding harsher punishments for fare dodgers: an increase in on-the-spot fines from €40 to €60 (£50), and €120 for repeat offenders. The association believes the current fine doesn't deter schwarzfahrer ("black riders") who take their chances without a ticket. If those "Schlipse" ("ties") could be bothered to read a book and comprehend the results of science, they might be interested in the results of criminology: Main deterrence isn't the punishment, but the chance to get caught. The €40 fine equates to 17 journeys in Berlin, where it is sometimes possible to go for weeks, if not months, without being checked, depending on which line is used. And now we are at the core of the problem. They have cutted into the costs of ticket inspections, and it didn't work. What a surprise. Ticket inspectors are a lot cheaper than a barrier system, but as soon as you cut them away, too, it doesn't work. That's easily understood by anybody but beancounters. The VDV is also outraged at an internet "service" launched in one German city to help fare dodgers evade ticket inspectors' sporadic checks. The MVV Blitzer (can't find working web link - KB) That's because Google tries to outsmart you: Change your preferences to "German", and you get there as the top hits. I have similar problems when searching for English terms, created by the attempts of Google to know my wishes better than me. The VDV claims fare dodging costs transport companies up to €250m a year. A further €100m is spent on ticket inspectors. Spend €200m on ticket inspectors, bring down the rate to 2%. Less than 2% is uneconomic. Although Germany is generally thought of as an obedient nation, So Germany has a much lower crime rate than Britain? Or does it just happen, that the writer couldn't be bothered to check facts? Hans-Joachim -- Telekomiker heißen Telekomiker, weil sie ungefragt und unbestellt eine Sprachbox auf einen FeTap 751-1 aufschalten. "... dann drücken Sie bitte die Eins." "Hab' ich gemacht..." |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators- The Guardian
On Feb 3, 1:04*pm, Neil Williams wrote:
On Feb 3, 12:31*pm, Bruce wrote: Although Germany is generally thought of as an obedient nation, exceptions do seem to apply on certain issues, especially those to do with motoring. Radio bulletins regularly include blitzermeldungen (flash warnings), which tell drivers where speed cameras appear to be working on any given day. And in the UK the authorities often put them on the Web in a kind-of "fair play" type move. The Swiss people I talk to are amazed that they do this. On the other hand, on our local buses (in CH, any door boarding, ocasional checks) the company seems to take a very "fair play" attitude to checks. last time I was on a bus that got checked, the driver announced on the PA that a check would happen at the next stop so that anyone without a ticket could buy one from the on board machine. I am told by others that checkers have been known to get on and stand around in uniform obviously, waiting for people to go buy their tickets before starting the check. Robin |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators- The Guardian
On Feb 3, 4:36*pm, bob wrote:
On the other hand, on our local buses (in CH, any door boarding, ocasional checks) the company seems to take a very "fair play" attitude to checks. *last time I was on a bus that got checked, the driver announced on the PA that a check would happen at the next stop so that anyone without a ticket could buy one from the on board machine. *I am told by others that checkers have been known to get on and stand around in uniform obviously, waiting for people to go buy their tickets before starting the check. When I was over in Den Haag for a bit, I found the inspectors normally just marched anyone who had "forgotten" to validate their Strippenkaart to the machine to do so, rather than issuing penalties of any kind. Neil |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators - The Guardian
If those "Schlipse" ("ties") could be bothered to read a book and
comprehend the results of science, they might be interested in the results of criminology: Main deterrence isn't the punishment, but the chance to get caught. Hear, hear -- Robin reply to address is (meant to be) valid |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators- The Guardian
On 03/02/2012 14:29, Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:
Although Germany is generally thought of as an obedient nation, So Germany has a much lower crime rate than Britain? Or does it just happen, that the writer couldn't be bothered to check facts? Is says "thought of", not "is". Britain isn't entirely full of red phone boxes, Routemaster buses and people drinking tea with the Queen, but a significant number of outsiders seem to think it is. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators - The Guardian
Arthur Figgis schrieb: Britain isn't entirely full of red phone boxes, Routemaster buses and people drinking tea with the Queen, but a significant number of outsiders seem to think it is. In this case, stereotypes are very convenient: If managers of British transport companies operate at higher cost, it's not their lazyness or incompetence, or their inability to understand, why it works in Germany and doesn't in Britain - it's the national character of the British, which requires operating at a higher cost level! And thus, it's not the manager's fault! Hans-Joachim |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators- The Guardian
On 04/02/2012 12:06, Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:
Arthur Figgis schrieb: Britain isn't entirely full of red phone boxes, Routemaster buses and people drinking tea with the Queen, but a significant number of outsiders seem to think it is. In this case, stereotypes are very convenient: If managers of British transport companies operate at higher cost, it's not their lazyness or incompetence, or their inability to understand, why it works in Germany and doesn't in Britain - it's the national character of the British, which requires operating at a higher cost level! And thus, it's not the manager's fault! But how often does anyone suggest British transport company managers are *not* incompetent, etc? People have hated railway management and assumed they are evil since, well, forever. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators - The Guardian
Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote
Although Germany is generally thought of as an obedient nation, So Germany has a much lower crime rate than Britain? Or does it just happen, that the writer couldn't be bothered to check facts? Perhaps the German criminal are obedient to a different set of rules ? But the kind of evidence for "obedience" I think of would be conduct similar to someone's report from Canada of the good citizens waiting in the snow for the green man before crossing the street in spite of the complete lack of traffic. -- Mike D |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators- The Guardian
On 04/02/2012 22:58, Michael R N Dolbear wrote:
Hans-Joachim wrote Although Germany is generally thought of as an obedient nation, So Germany has a much lower crime rate than Britain? Or does it just happen, that the writer couldn't be bothered to check facts? Perhaps the German criminal are obedient to a different set of rules ? But the kind of evidence for "obedience" I think of would be conduct similar to someone's report from Canada of the good citizens waiting in the snow for the green man before crossing the street in spite of the complete lack of traffic. Yup. I was in Mannheim (or was it Heidelberg?) last year, and some old bloke was shouting "denken Sie an die Kinder" (or whatever) at anyone who crossed when the road was clear rather than when the light was green. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators- The Guardian
Am 05.02.2012 00:31, schrieb Arthur Figgis:
I was in Mannheim (or was it Heidelberg?) last year, and some old bloke was shouting "denken Sie an die Kinder" (or whatever) at anyone who crossed when the road was clear rather than when the light was green. One finds such admonitions on signs posted at street crossings here in Germany. So when kids are waiting with me at the red light, I sometimes do wait for the green... Cheers, L.W. |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators- The Guardian
On Feb 4, 11:58*pm, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
Perhaps the German criminal are obedient to a different set of rules ? I think so. They don't cross on a red pedestrian light, but there is a major graffiti problem in the way there isn't in the UK (say). Neil |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators- The Guardian
On Feb 5, 1:33*pm, Neil Williams wrote:
On Feb 4, 11:58*pm, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote: Perhaps the German criminal are obedient to a different set of rules ? [...]*They don't cross on a red pedestrian light, They don't?! Perhaps they really do put those "The children are watching - wait for the green" signs up in shacksvilles at the end of branch lines solely for the benefit of any passing British track-bashers - but I rather suspect not! R. |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators- The Guardian
On Feb 5, 2:23*pm, Ross-a-travelling wrote:
They don't?! Not to the extent that people do in the UK, where they are an entirely optional aid to pedestrianism, to be used only when the traffic is too heavy not to use them. Neil |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators- The Guardian
On Feb 5, 9:25*pm, Neil Williams wrote:
On Feb 5, 2:23*pm, Ross-a-travelling wrote: Why did you delete the context, Neil? Not everyone will necessarily receive every post... [Reinstated: On Feb 5, 1:33 pm, Neil Williams wrote: On Feb 4, 11:58 pm, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote: Perhaps the German criminal are obedient to a different set of rules ? [...] They don't cross on a red pedestrian light, ] They don't?! Not to the extent that people do in the UK, [...] That's surely rather different to the categoric "they don't", though? R. (Currently in Romania, where crossing one road at junctions involves crossing one side of it then waiting for the lights to go through almost a full cycle with you stuck in the small central reservation before they finally change to let you finish crossing. Crossing more than one road legally takes an eternity. No wonder everyone treats the pedestrian lights as guidance...) |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators- The Guardian
On Feb 5, 8:44*pm, Ross-a-travelling wrote:
[...] They don't cross on a red pedestrian light, ] They don't?! Not to the extent that people do in the UK, [...] That's surely rather different to the categoric "they don't", though? True. I would however go so far as to say that most don't. (Currently in Romania, where crossing one road at junctions involves crossing one side of it then waiting for the lights to go through almost a full cycle with you stuck in the small central reservation before they finally change to let you finish crossing. Crossing more than one road legally takes an eternity. No wonder everyone treats the pedestrian lights as guidance...) Interesting... will be going there myself (and then on to Moldova via the overnight train) at the end of Feb... Neil |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators - The Guardian
En el artículo , Bruce
escribió: About 3.5% of journeys on German public transport are not paid for, You could turn that round and say that 96.5% of journeys are paid for. Given the (apparent) low levels of inspection, that seems pretty high to me. -- (\_/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators- The Guardian
Am 06.02.2012 07:42, schrieb Mike Tomlinson:
About 3.5% of journeys on German public transport are not paid for, You could turn that round and say that 96.5% of journeys are paid for. Given the (apparent) low levels of inspection, that seems pretty high to me. And please note that the 3.5% is a statistical estimate with some margin of error, or even a bias resulting from the interest of the transport companies to increase their income. A transit organisation will have to find an optimum within the constraints of maximising the income from fares plus penalty fares on the one hand and the minimising of the costs of controlling the payment. A city in Belgium found that to dispense with collecting fares for their public transit was the optimum. Society through their administrations have also to consider how the usage and hence cost of alternative modes of transports change caused by modifying the fares for public transit. There is no single dimension, and one has to be able to calculate with more than one single variable. Cheers, L.W. |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators- The Guardian
On Feb 6, 7:42*am, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
You could turn that round and say that 96.5% of journeys are paid for. Given the (apparent) low levels of inspection, that seems pretty high to me. Does "public transport" mean "city public transport", or does it include IC rail, where on-board checks are conducted, so getting away with it is unlikely? Neil |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators- The Guardian
Am 06.02.2012 12:34, schrieb Neil Williams:
You could turn that round and say that 96.5% of journeys are paid for. Given the (apparent) low levels of inspection, that seems pretty high to me. Does "public transport" mean "city public transport", or does it include IC rail, where on-board checks are conducted, so getting away with it is unlikely? VDV is talking here only about local and regional transit, not long distance journeys. Cheers, L.W. |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators- The Guardian
Am 03.02.2012 13:06, schrieb Neil Williams:
the VDV, which is demanding harsher punishments for fare dodgers: an increase in on-the-spot fines from €40 to €60 (£50), and €120 for repeat offenders. That seems a good idea, so long as some discretion is possible for genuine cases (e.g. if you forget your personalised[1] season ticket, in that case, the law says, the penalty fare is reduced to 7 Euro, if the personalized (season) ticket is shown within 14 days. and get PFed, you can get the money back against an admin fee). Generally, in an open system, the PF should be set at a level that fare dodging doesn't cause a loss to the operator.If that's the case, they can just stop worrying about it. The real deterrent is not the amount of the possible penalty fare, but the probability to get caught. But to increase this probability increases the operating cost for the operator, while the increment in fares and penalty fares diminshes. Cheers, L.W. |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators- The Guardian
On 03/02/2012 16:01, Neil Williams wrote:
On Feb 3, 4:36 pm, wrote: On the other hand, on our local buses (in CH, any door boarding, ocasional checks) the company seems to take a very "fair play" attitude to checks. last time I was on a bus that got checked, the driver announced on the PA that a check would happen at the next stop so that anyone without a ticket could buy one from the on board machine. I am told by others that checkers have been known to get on and stand around in uniform obviously, waiting for people to go buy their tickets before starting the check. When I was over in Den Haag for a bit, I found the inspectors normally just marched anyone who had "forgotten" to validate their Strippenkaart to the machine to do so, rather than issuing penalties of any kind. Neil I thought they were getting rid of Strippenkaart in favour of Smart Cards. |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators
- The Guardian
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:52:23 +0000, "
wrote: I thought they were getting rid of Strippenkaart in favour of Smart Cards. They are. This was a good 5 years ago. Neil -- Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators
"Neil Williams" schreef
: On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:52:23 +0000, " : wrote: : I thought they were getting rid of Strippenkaart in favour of Smart : Cards. : They are. This was a good 5 years ago. The Strippenkaart no longer exists. As far as I remember, it was abolished in November last year. Colin Youngs Brussels |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transport operators
Colin Youngs wrote:
"Neil Williams" schreef : On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:52:23 +0000, " : wrote: : I thought they were getting rid of Strippenkaart in favour of Smart : Cards. : They are. This was a good 5 years ago. The Strippenkaart no longer exists. As far as I remember, it was abolished in November last year. Correct. |
German fare dodgers cause headache for publictransportoperators - The Guardian
Neil Williams schrieb: Not to the extent that people do in the UK, Depends on origin: (West-)Berlin/Hamburg or Samplevillage in Baden-Württemberg. On the other hand, Britons /drive/ much closer to the rules, at least they did some decades ago. BTW: I felt a similar sensation, when I saw Britons queue for bus stops. Don't know wether it still works this way, but never did in Germany. Hans-Joachim -- Telekomiker heißen Telekomiker, weil sie ungefragt und unbestellt eine Sprachbox auf einen FeTap 751-1 aufschalten. "... dann drücken Sie bitte die Eins." "Hab' ich gemacht..." |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators - The Guardian
Neil Williams schrieb: Does "public transport" mean "city public transport", or does it include IC rail, where on-board checks are conducted, so getting away with it is unlikely? While I don't /know/ it, I /assume/ that the VDV is talking about "Nahverkehr". So it would include RE trains, where there are ticket checks by the guard, usually. Unless it is a situation as on the Hunsrückbahn, where fare dodging has reached a level around 50%. Hans-Joachim |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators - The Guardian
Arthur Figgis schrieb: But how often does anyone suggest British transport company managers are *not* incompetent, etc? People have hated railway management and assumed they are evil since, well, forever. Perhaps people are right? An exception, which springs to mind, is the widely respected Dieter Ludwig. h. |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators - The Guardian
In uk.railway Hans-Joachim Zierke twisted the electrons to say:
BTW: I felt a similar sensation, when I saw Britons queue for bus stops. Don't know wether it still works this way, but never did in Germany. Having boarded buses in Austria, Germany and the UK I can't say I've noticed any particular difference in the way that people behave. -- These opinions might not even be mine ... Let alone connected with my employer ... |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public
transportoperators - The Guardian
On 11 Feb 2012 21:55:47 GMT, Hans-Joachim Zierke
wrote: BTW: I felt a similar sensation, when I saw Britons queue for bus stops. Don't know wether it still works this way, but never did in Germany. It sort-of does, but doesn't work because more than one route tends to serve most busy stops. The most interesting one is perhaps the bar or barber's shop, where there is most definitely a queue, but it is not visible. Neil -- Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK |
German fare dodgers cause headache for publictransportoperators - The Guardian
Arthur Figgis schrieb: Yup. I was in Mannheim (or was it Heidelberg?) last year, and some old bloke was shouting "denken Sie an die Kinder" (or whatever) at anyone who crossed when the road was clear rather than when the light was green. Why did he shout? After all, according to this newsgroup, Germans don't do that? BTW: What about pedestrians crossing railroad tracks, if the light is red and no train in sight? Hans-Joachim |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators- The Guardian
On 12/02/2012 17:28, Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:
Arthur Figgis schrieb: Yup. I was in Mannheim (or was it Heidelberg?) last year, and some old bloke was shouting "denken Sie an die Kinder" (or whatever) at anyone who crossed when the road was clear rather than when the light was green. Why did he shout? After all, according to this newsgroup, Germans don't do that? Maybe the people crossing weren't German? Had it been Britain, a close approximation to no-one would have been stood waiting for the lights (unless some German tourists happened to be passing). BTW: What about pedestrians crossing railroad tracks, if the light is red and no train in sight? There probably aren't all that many places where the situation arises - there would generally be lights and barriers, or no safety systems at all - but in general I think people would wait for a train. Unless they were going to catch one from the other platform... -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators- The Guardian
On 12/02/2012 14:20, Neil Williams wrote:
On 11 Feb 2012 21:55:47 GMT, Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote: BTW: I felt a similar sensation, when I saw Britons queue for bus stops. Don't know wether it still works this way, but never did in Germany. It sort-of does, but doesn't work because more than one route tends to serve most busy stops. The most interesting one is perhaps the bar or barber's shop, where there is most definitely a queue, but it is not visible. I've noticed an increasing number of shops with designs which make queuing difficult; Greggs seem particularly bad for it. There also seems a trend for places to be unsure whether they are adopting post office queueing or not, causing problems because no-one is sure what is going on. The Sainsbury's at Clapham Junction is (was?) laid out so that people coming from the sandwich shelf can't see the queue because it is hidden round the corner, and so they go straight to a till (at least the first time - I've done it, I've seen countless other people do it). OTOH smaller branches of M&S go for nicely defined queues, but they are far too narrow and people knock stuff off the racks of sweets. Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators- The Guardian
Am 13.02.2012 08:52, schrieb Arthur Figgis:
unsure whether they are adopting post office queueing or not what is meant by "post office queueing" in this context? Cheers, L.W. |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators - The Guardian
In message , at 11:03:48 on
Mon, 13 Feb 2012, Lüko Willms remarked: unsure whether they are adopting post office queueing or not what is meant by "post office queueing" in this context? Single queue, multiple server. Although ironically the Post Office used to have separate windows (and separate queues) for different activities. So you'd queue once to buy stamps and then again to renew your car tax. The muddle tends to arise when a multiple server multiple queue situation (eg the default at most fast food outlets) gets overloaded, and people form an additional single queue, where customers peel off the front to join the each server's queue when the latter get down to about two or three per server. -- Roland Perry |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators- The Guardian
On 11/02/2012 21:55, Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:
Neil Williams schrieb: Not to the extent that people do in the UK, Depends on origin: (West-)Berlin/Hamburg or Samplevillage in Baden-Württemberg. On the other hand, Britons /drive/ much closer to the rules, at least they did some decades ago. BTW: I felt a similar sensation, when I saw Britons queue for bus stops. Don't know wether it still works this way, but never did in Germany. Hans-Joachim They still continue to do that on Fleet Street. |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators- The Guardian
On 13/02/2012 10:03, Lüko Willms wrote:
Am 13.02.2012 08:52, schrieb Arthur Figgis: unsure whether they are adopting post office queueing or not what is meant by "post office queueing" in this context? Cheers, L.W. The Royal Mail has undertaken a redesign of its branches. Instead of queuing in a line, you take a number from a machine for the type of service that you require and approach a counter when your number is called. At least I think that's what it means. |
German fare dodgers cause headache for public transportoperators- The Guardian
On Feb 13, 9:11*pm, " wrote: On 13/02/2012 10:03, Lüko Willms wrote: Am 13.02.2012 08:52, schrieb Arthur Figgis: unsure whether they are adopting post office queueing or not what is meant by "post office queueing" in this context?. The Royal Mail has undertaken a redesign of its branches. Instead of queuing in a line, you take a number from a machine for the type of service that you require and approach a counter when your number is called. At least I think that's what it means. No - just one queue for multiple counters (as opposed to each counter having its own queue). |
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