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Old January 21st 04, 09:36 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default Kings Cross fire (1987) : final victim named


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3415473.stm

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Old January 21st 04, 04:06 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default Kings Cross fire (1987) : final victim named

"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3415473.stm


I am quite amazed that they finally identified them all, and it
certainly had to be done, to close the whole tragic episode.

What disgusts me is that I still occasionally see some imbecile who
insists on smoking on the Underground. The last one I complained to,
an obnoxious lout, stubbed out his cigarette on the upholstery in the
train!

Only a matter of time till there is another fire somewhere, and it
will not be an escalator, or probably not the fault of LUL, but it
will be due to some cretin who insists on smoking where it is banned.
If it were up to me, I would charge the tobacco companies with
corporate manslaughter, after all they deliberately stimulate and
encourage the addiction which causes this problem. I wonder if the BTP
and/or HSE have thought about that one, instead of blaming those why
try hard to run a railway under difficult conditions?
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Old January 21st 04, 04:12 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default Kings Cross fire (1987) : final victim named

In article ,
Alan Campbell wrote:
If it were up to me, I would charge the tobacco companies with
corporate manslaughter, after all they deliberately stimulate and
encourage the addiction


I love the way in which smokers will blame almost anyone but themselves
for their smoking.

ian
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Old January 22nd 04, 12:00 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default Kings Cross fire (1987) : final victim named


"Alan Campbell" wrote in message
om...
"John Rowland" wrote in message

...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3415473.stm


I am quite amazed that they finally identified them all, and it
certainly had to be done, to close the whole tragic episode.

What disgusts me is that I still occasionally see some imbecile who
insists on smoking on the Underground. The last one I complained to,
an obnoxious lout, stubbed out his cigarette on the upholstery in the
train!

Only a matter of time till there is another fire somewhere, and it
will not be an escalator, or probably not the fault of LUL, but it
will be due to some cretin who insists on smoking where it is banned.
If it were up to me, I would charge the tobacco companies with
corporate manslaughter, after all they deliberately stimulate and
encourage the addiction which causes this problem. I wonder if the BTP
and/or HSE have thought about that one, instead of blaming those why
try hard to run a railway under difficult conditions?


In off-peak periods, in outer London open-air stations, the rule is
flagrantly flouted. If you look at the tracks at Northolt, for example, you
will see almost as many cigarette butts as at my local NR station (mostly,
but not always, left by groups of young people). Smoking in the carriages is
also fairly common. Nothing can stop this sort of deliquency except
reasonably regular patrols by staff.


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Old January 22nd 04, 12:24 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default Kings Cross fire (1987) : final victim named

but not always, left by groups of young people). Smoking in the carriages
is
also fairly common. Nothing can stop this sort of deliquency except
reasonably regular patrols by staff.


Even that isn't working. Until people are dragged through the courts they
will continue, knowing even if they are caught, they'll just be asked to
finish it.

Happens all the time at New Street - there is no disincentive to smoking
there.

Richard




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Old January 22nd 04, 06:18 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default Kings Cross fire (1987) : final victim named

Ian G Batten wrote in message ...
In article ,
Alan Campbell wrote:
If it were up to me, I would charge the tobacco companies with
corporate manslaughter, after all they deliberately stimulate and
encourage the addiction


I love the way in which smokers will blame almost anyone but themselves
for their smoking.

ian


Just to clarify matters, I am a non-smoker, always have been, and
always will be,in case you thought I was trying to blame someone else
for my failings. You may be right, smokers may well blame others, I
could not possibly comment. But, I was sort of having a go at the HSE
nad BTP and everyone else who try to apportion blame and, tongue in
cheek, suggesting that maybe they could extend their policy to blame
the tobacco barons, who have lots of money, next time there is a fire.
I think there is a far better corelation between smoking and fires
than between speeding on the open road, in good conditions, and road
accidents. I know, we need smoking cameras...... A certain Chief Plod
Brunstrom would love that idea, he would make lots and lots of money
without his Plods having to go uot of the station.
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Old January 22nd 04, 06:26 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default Kings Cross fire (1987) : final victim named

"Richard" wrote in message ...
but not always, left by groups of young people). Smoking in the carriages

is
also fairly common. Nothing can stop this sort of deliquency except
reasonably regular patrols by staff.


Even that isn't working. Until people are dragged through the courts they
will continue, knowing even if they are caught, they'll just be asked to
finish it.

Happens all the time at New Street - there is no disincentive to smoking
there.

Richard


Yes, to both posts, I have seen it in both places. Now, they will
argue that Northolt is not underground...... (Not the point of course,
the law still applies, and a train with smouldering upholstery heading
east might be in the middle of London when it flares up, if they get
on the train there while still smoking).

They do need to be made an example of in the courts, otherwise the law
will have to be abandoned until the next great tragedy, which we would
all hope to avoid.

IMHO, smoking on an Underground train should carry an automatic 14 day
prison sentence, with no cigarettes allowed..... An accidental
violation of health and safety law can result in much worse, so it is
hardly extreme. I wonder if they do that in Singapore. Last time I was
there, it was a hughe on the spot fine for droping a cigarette end in
the street, so people actualy don't do it.

Tiger


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