'Driver told: Stop helping stab victim'

http://www.thisislondon.com/news/art...ing%20Standard

By Dick Murray, Evening Standard, Transport Editor

16 August 2004

The Tube train driver who tried to help a teenager dying of stab
wounds on a station platform was allegedly ordered by his boss to stop
what he was doing and continue driving.

The driver had taken off his shirt to try to stem the bleeding of
Sayed Abbas, 19, at Hounslow West station - but the young man died
shortly after being taken to the West Middlesex hospital.

He was kneeling beside the injured youth and taking instructions from
the emergency services on a mobile phone when a station supervisor
approached to say he had a message from the line controller.

The driver's union claimed he was told to "stop what he was doing and
move the train". At that point the paramedics had not arrived.

Steve Grant, London district secretary of Aslef, the train driver's
union, today condemned London Underground's order to the driver as
"heartless and absolutely disgraceful".

Mr Grant, a former Tube driver, said: "To approach a member of staff
who is desperately trying to save a life and tell them to stop beggars
belief.

At the very least, the driver should have been allowed to continue
what he was doing until the emergency services arrived.

"As usual, LU was more concerned about the service than the safety of
customers.

"We are given basic training in first aid - but when it comes to it,
with the driver now the only staff member on the train, it is they who
face the brunt of whatever happens and have to deal with it.

"The line controllers are on drivers' backs all the time."

Mr Abbas, a Briton of Middle Eastern origin, was with two friends when
he was stabbed.

The incident happened at about 11.15pm last Thursday and was revealed
in Friday's Evening Standard.

The Piccadilly line driver - who is not named - is now off sick
following the killing.

He reported that as his train approached the station he saw someone
lying on the platform.

He tried to contact the line controller on his train radio to raise
the alarm but was unable to. After stopping the train at the platform
the driver walked back to see what had happened.

Finding the man had been stabbed he then ran back to the front of the
train to where there was an internal telephone on the platform.

This time he made contact with the line controller and told him what
had happened.

The driver then returned to the injured teenager.

By then someone had contacted the emergency services, the driver took
the mobile and was given instructions about how to stop the blood
loss.

He took off his shirt to use as a makeshift pressure bandage.

As he was doing this it is claimed the station supervisor approached
and the message from the line controller was relayed. An LU
spokeswoman said she was unable to comment "for legal reasons".

Four people have been charged with the murder of Mr Abbas and will
today appear at Feltham magistrates' court.

Police named two of the four as Oluwasey Ogunsanya, 19, and Hassan
Hassan, 18.

The two others, aged 16 and 17, cannot be named from legal reasons.

In message , at 04:47:54
on Mon, 16 Aug 2004, S.Byers remarked:
The Tube train driver who tried to help a teenager dying of stab
wounds on a station platform was allegedly ordered by his boss to stop
what he was doing and continue driving.

What this story fails to say is whether or not the driver did in fact
stop rendering assistance, to drive the train. A sensible course of
action would probably have been to wait until the paramedics arrived and
then claim to be too shocked to continue driving.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
.uk...
In message , at 04:47:54
on Mon, 16 Aug 2004, S.Byers remarked:
The Tube train driver who tried to help a teenager dying of stab
wounds on a station platform was allegedly ordered by his boss to stop
what he was doing and continue driving.

What this story fails to say is whether or not the driver did in fact
stop rendering assistance, to drive the train. A sensible course of
action would probably have been to wait until the paramedics arrived and
then claim to be too shocked to continue driving.
--
Roland Perry

Am I right in saying that you could be charged with manslaughter if you
'Fail to offer reasonalbe assistance' to someone in need. Obviously what is
reasonable could be open to interpretation, but perhaps a visit from the
local Constabulary to the home of the LU manager to interview him might
shake him up a bit. Also a good case for naming and shaming I would have
thought (again the manager).

Mike D wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
.uk...
In message , at
04:47:54 on Mon, 16 Aug 2004, S.Byers
remarked:
The Tube train driver who tried to help a teenager dying of stab
wounds on a station platform was allegedly ordered by his boss to
stop what he was doing and continue driving.

What this story fails to say is whether or not the driver did in fact
stop rendering assistance, to drive the train. A sensible course of
action would probably have been to wait until the paramedics arrived
and then claim to be too shocked to continue driving.
--
Roland Perry

Am I right in saying that you could be charged with manslaughter if
you 'Fail to offer reasonalbe assistance' to someone in need.
Obviously what is reasonable could be open to interpretation, but
perhaps a visit from the local Constabulary to the home of the LU
manager to interview him might shake him up a bit. Also a good case
for naming and shaming I would have thought (again the manager).

On a point of accuracy, a Line Controller is not a manager. The rest of the
comments I totally agree with.

In article ,
Piccadilly Pilot wrote:
Am I right in saying that you could be charged with manslaughter if
you 'Fail to offer reasonalbe assistance' to someone in need.
Obviously what is reasonable could be open to interpretation, but
perhaps a visit from the local Constabulary to the home of the LU
manager to interview him might shake him up a bit. Also a good case
for naming and shaming I would have thought (again the manager).

On a point of accuracy, a Line Controller is not a manager. The rest of the
comments I totally agree with.

It wouldn't be totally unreasonable for the line controller to ring
up the station supervisor and say something like: "My driver on
your platform 2 is doing a bit of first aid. Could you pop down
and take over so he can drive the train on? I've got trains stalled
all the way back to Arnos Grove! Ta."

This is particularly true if the line controller didn't know how
serious the situation was. Perhaps the driver wasn't answering his
cab radio at the time!

I realize, of course, that my assumption that the Evening Standards
reporting is anything other than fair and accurate is totaly without
foundation.

Cheers,


--
You dont have to be illiterate to use the Internet, but it help's.

"Mike Bristow" wrote in message
...

This is particularly true if the line controller didn't know how
serious the situation was. Perhaps the driver wasn't answering his
cab radio at the time!

The driver could hardly answer his cab radio if he was half way back on the
platform - but he had informed the line controller (by telephone, as he
couldn't get through by radio). In any case, if the line controller had been
aware of the seriousness of the situation he wouldn't have been so anxious
to get trains moving. As it was, BTP took over and closed the line from the
time of the incident (around 2315 Thursday) until Friday afternoon. Anyone
know why it took so long - I can't see why the search of the tracks couldn't
have been completed overnight, even if the station had to be closed most of
Friday. I suspect therte were a good few missed flights at Heathrow.

Peter

In message , at 16:47:10 on Mon, 16
Aug 2004, Mike D remarked:
Am I right in saying that you could be charged with manslaughter if you
'Fail to offer reasonalbe assistance' to someone in need.

In France, yes. But not in the UK, as far as I'm aware.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Mike D wrote:

Am I right in saying that you could be charged with manslaughter if
you 'Fail to offer reasonalbe assistance' to someone in need.

I don't believe so - not in English law.

German law is certainly different - a bystander could indeed be
charged with failing to render assistance[1] (though I don't think
that failure alone could lead to a manslaughter charge as you
suggest). But the flip side was that untrained bystanders could feel
themselves bound to intervene in a situation where their intervention
did more harm than good for the victim.

regards

[1] Google suggests http://lawww.de/Library/stgb/323c.htm
Punishment up to 1 year imprisonment, or a fine.

"Alan J. Flavell" wrote in message
a.ac.uk...
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Mike D wrote:

Am I right in saying that you could be charged with manslaughter if
you 'Fail to offer reasonalbe assistance' to someone in need.

I don't believe so - not in English law.

German law is certainly different - a bystander could indeed be
charged with failing to render assistance[1] (though I don't think
that failure alone could lead to a manslaughter charge as you
suggest).
But the flip side was that untrained bystanders could feel
themselves bound to intervene in a situation where their intervention
did more harm than good for the victim.

This is exactly right. Doing the wrong think and making the
injury worse is far more likely to happen than doing the
right thing and saving someone, Though this probably
doesn't apply if someone is squirting blood everwhere.

tim

"Mike D" wrote in message
...

Am I right in saying that you could be charged
with manslaughter if you 'Fail to offer reasonalbe
assistance' to someone in need.

No. Under English law, if you found Tony Blair hanging off the edge of a
cliff, you would be under no legal obligation to rescue him. I've checked.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes