On 08/11/2012 21:33, Anthony Polson wrote:
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , JNugent
writes

There are also:
- the Tyne Tunnel (rejoicing in the title "A19" - it used to be the A1),

Point of information:
The Tyne Tunnel was never the A1. The A1 was the road over the Tyne
Bridge. The Western Bypass is now the A1.


Point of information: The Tyne Tunnel *was* intended to be on the A1.

According to my 1990 OS Atlas the A1 (T) followed what is now the
A194(M), the A184 and then the A19. The Western bypass is under
construction and expected to open mid 1990. I too can remember being driven
through the tunnel in the 70's with signs reading A1.

I can't work out whether the Tyne tunnels are Trunk routes, but the
Humber Bridge definitely is not, nor are the Mersey tolled crossings.

In message , at 03:28:18
on Fri, 9 Nov 2012, remarked:

My sister-in-law's family lived in Boldon Colliery

Underground or overground?

(as this is utl).
--
Roland Perry

On 08/11/2012 19:09, tim..... wrote:

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
On 08/11/2012 12:17, tim..... wrote:

"Phil" wrote in message
...
"tim....." writes:

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
On 06/11/2012 14:58, tim..... wrote:

ISTM that if we are to have a database of registrations of car number
plates to credit/debit card accounts for post payment of tolls
there should
be one national database for every toll that is collected (by a
government
agency) this way (not a separate one for Dartford and another one for
London CC etc), so it will be easy for anyone who thinks that they
might
want to use a tolled road somewhere in the country to know that
they ought
to register, just in case.

That is about 20% of the population.

So the only people who it won't work for a

a) people who want to cheat the system by driving through and not
paying

b) A small section of the population who really didn't get to hear
about it.

c) almost everybody.

don't be stupid.

Why stupid, most people do not use any sort of toll road on a regular
basis. And many occasional users of the Dartford Crossing are not going
home that day and any internet payment is likely to incur data roaming
charges.

But even those that don't use it know of its existence and see news items
about it

Most won't. Even if they do, most will not want to use a toll road
somewhere in the country before they change their cars or credit cards.

So they won't register to do so then, will they?

Where has everyone got this idea from that I am suggesting compulsory
registration (the compulsion to use is on the part of the operators, not
drivers)

Nobody has got that idea. We think you suggested that people 'ought to
register, just in case' and that it is stupid to suggest that almost
everybody would prefer not to register.

In message , Nick Finnigan
writes
On 08/11/2012 21:33, Anthony Polson wrote:
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , JNugent
writes

There are also:
- the Tyne Tunnel (rejoicing in the title "A19" - it used to be the A1),

Point of information:
The Tyne Tunnel was never the A1. The A1 was the road over the Tyne
Bridge. The Western Bypass is now the A1.


Point of information: The Tyne Tunnel *was* intended to be on the A1.

According to my 1990 OS Atlas the A1 (T) followed what is now the
A194(M), the A184 and then the A19. The Western bypass is under
construction and expected to open mid 1990. I too can remember being
driven through the tunnel in the 70's with signs reading A1.

Well, I'll certainly take your word for it, but I simply don't recall
it. I never took that route myself, but stuck to the old road through
Gateshead, across the Tyne Bridge, across the Town Moor and out through
Gosforth. I've only driven through the Tyne Tunnel once - and as that
was probably after the Western Bypass was opened, the signs would not
have said 'A1'.

I can't work out whether the Tyne tunnels are Trunk routes, but the
Humber Bridge definitely is not, nor are the Mersey tolled crossings.

I guess there was some logic in keeping some road as 'The A1', as it
would simplify finding your way without a succession of changes in the
road numbers on your route.
--
Ian

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...

Well, maybe at some time (possibly during the building of the Western
Bypass and the re-designation the part of the A1 through Gateshead the
A167) someone decided to call the Tyne Tunnel itself the A1, However, I
doubt if any of the roads connecting to the TT were called the A1. As I've
said, heading south on the A1 from the north side of Newcastle, I'm pretty
sure that the eastwards turn-off for the Tyne Tunnel and the Bergen Ferry
terminal said A19. Heading north, just after the Washington services, the
eastwards turn-off was the A194 or A194M.

No, there was definitely a period of around 10-12 years following the
opening of the northern section of what is now the A19 dual carriageway
(between Seaton Burn and the tunnel) when the A1 was signed that way
throughout, from Washington to Seaton Burn, I have an OS map in front of me
now (from 1989) showing it so.

With cost apparently being immaterial at the time, many of the major roads
in the Newcastle area were concurrently renumbered into the 6 zone, during
which period the Central Motorway East (CME) was the A6127(M). Once the A1
was rerouted via the western bypass, all the major roads in the area were
renumbered back into the 1 zone again, hence the CME now being the A167(M).

Paul

Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , JNugent
writes
On 08/11/2012 23:31, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Anthony Polson
writes







The Tyne Tunnel now has two bores each carrying two lanes of traffic.
There is, however, no intention to revert to the original plan and
apply "A1" to the A19/Tyne Tunnel road system.

So what you're saying is that the Tyne Tunnel never actually got to be the A1
- which would explain why I have no recollection of it being so!

NO... It was the A1 for a while.

Well, maybe at some time (possibly during the building of the Western
Bypass and the re-designation the part of the A1 through Gateshead the
A167) someone decided to call the Tyne Tunnel itself the A1, However, I
doubt if any of the roads connecting to the TT were called the A1. As
I've said, heading south on the A1 from the north side of Newcastle, I'm
pretty sure that the eastwards turn-off for the Tyne Tunnel and the
Bergen Ferry terminal said A19. Heading north, just after the Washington
services, the eastwards turn-off was the A194 or A194M.


The Tyne Tunnel was *never* given the designation "A1".

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...

Well, maybe at some time (possibly during the building of the Western
Bypass and the re-designation the part of the A1 through Gateshead the
A167) someone decided to call the Tyne Tunnel itself the A1, However, I
doubt if any of the roads connecting to the TT were called the A1. As
I've said, heading south on the A1 from the north side of Newcastle, I'm
pretty sure that the eastwards turn-off for the Tyne Tunnel and the
Bergen Ferry terminal said A19. Heading north, just after the Washington
services, the eastwards turn-off was the A194 or A194M.

No, there was definitely a period of around 10-12 years following the
opening of the northern section of what is now the A19 dual carriageway
(between Seaton Burn and the tunnel) when the A1 was signed that way
throughout, from Washington to Seaton Burn, I have an OS map in front of
me now (from 1989) showing it so.

However as Tony has just pointed out, the actual tunnel may not have been
numbered 'A1', but both the northern and southern routes to it were.

Paul

On 09/11/2012 09:21, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , JNugent
writes
On 08/11/2012 23:31, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Anthony Polson
writes







The Tyne Tunnel now has two bores each carrying two lanes of traffic.
There is, however, no intention to revert to the original plan and
apply "A1" to the A19/Tyne Tunnel road system.

So what you're saying is that the Tyne Tunnel never actually got to be the A1
- which would explain why I have no recollection of it being so!

NO... It was the A1 for a while.

Well, maybe at some time (possibly during the building of the Western Bypass
and the re-designation the part of the A1 through Gateshead the A167) someone
decided to call the Tyne Tunnel itself the A1,However, I doubt if any of the
roads connecting to the TT were called the A1.

Half-right. It was partly A1 and partly A1(M).

As I've said, heading south on
the A1 from the north side of Newcastle, I'm pretty sure that the eastwards
turn-off for the Tyne Tunnel and the Bergen Ferry terminal said A19. Heading
north, just after the Washington services, the eastwards turn-off was the
A194 or A194M.

The Tyne Tunnel-bound routes have clearly had a chequered numbering history.
But how many authoritative sources will you need cited before you accept that
the Tyne Tunnel was indeed (at one time) numbered A1?

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
On 08/11/2012 19:09, tim..... wrote:

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
On 08/11/2012 12:17, tim..... wrote:

"Phil" wrote in message
...
"tim....." writes:

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
On 06/11/2012 14:58, tim..... wrote:

ISTM that if we are to have a database of registrations of car
number
plates to credit/debit card accounts for post payment of tolls
there should
be one national database for every toll that is collected (by a
government
agency) this way (not a separate one for Dartford and another one
for
London CC etc), so it will be easy for anyone who thinks that they
might
want to use a tolled road somewhere in the country to know that
they ought
to register, just in case.

That is about 20% of the population.

So the only people who it won't work for a

a) people who want to cheat the system by driving through and not
paying

b) A small section of the population who really didn't get to hear
about it.

c) almost everybody.

don't be stupid.

Why stupid, most people do not use any sort of toll road on a regular
basis. And many occasional users of the Dartford Crossing are not
going
home that day and any internet payment is likely to incur data roaming
charges.

But even those that don't use it know of its existence and see news
items
about it

Most won't. Even if they do, most will not want to use a toll road
somewhere in the country before they change their cars or credit cards.

So they won't register to do so then, will they?

Where has everyone got this idea from that I am suggesting compulsory
registration (the compulsion to use is on the part of the operators, not
drivers)

Nobody has got that idea. We think you suggested that people 'ought to
register, just in case' and that it is stupid to suggest that almost
everybody would prefer not to register.

well yes, but I was just referring to the subset of people who actually make
use of such roads (at least) occasionally

tim

On 09/11/2012 09:20, tim..... wrote:

"Clive George" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 08/11/2012 20:20, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:05:27 on Thu, 8 Nov
2012, tim..... remarked:
The M6 Toll is admittedly well known, and I have a vague recollection
that the Humber, Severn and Forth bridges are tolled (none of which
I've
used in the last 20+ years). Beyond that... nothing.

tim's assertion upthread is of course quite daft.

what, the assertion that a well travelled person live Roland should
know the half dozen major tolled roads in the UK?

Surprisingly enough, I've rarely encountered toll roads.

I amazed that he doesn't

JOOI Which ones are missing from my list?

Penrhyndeudraeth,

That was "bought out" many years ago.

And IME, paying it was voluntary anyway :-(

Confusion with the Porthmadog one? Thought the booth looks a bit
unmanned in the streetview pics from 2009, the sign is still there.

http://goo.gl/maps/krE7S