Robin9 wrote:

Tim Roll-Pickering;134793 Wrote:


At this stage the emphasis is largely on joining up the dots rather than

breaking new ground - the Victoria line kicked that off and the JLE
followed
suit by going where the demand was.



The emphasis certainly should be on joining up the dots. Unfortunately
the people who make the decisions seem to be totally unaware of how
that would benefit London. The second major failing of this Battersea
scheme
is that is does not link up with other routes.

My particular obsession - an extension from Kennington to Clapham
Junction
- would most definitely "join up the dots" as would other obvious - to
practical
people - proposals like extending the Bakerloo Line to Peckham Rye and
the
Victoria Line to Leytonstone.

You might want to see
http://www.londonreconnections.com/2...nsion-public-c
onsultation-details/ which quotes the Tfl documents and notes

"The associated consultation documents confirm that cost and the high
passenger levels already found on the Victoria Line are the reasons why
an interchange at Vauxhall is not being pursued. Future extension to
Clapham Junction is, however, acknowledged as a possibility and the
tunnel layout is designed to support this."

--
Mark

"77002" wrote in message
...
On 5 Dec, 16:39, wrote:

If the line is intended to replace the two existing Battersea stations
(accelerating services into Victoria and Waterloo), and would then
continue to Clapham Junction (for interchange with the mainlines) it
might make some sort of sense.

Of one thing we can be very confident: Clapham Junction will *never* have an
interchange with a tube line. Just imagine the cost.

D A Stocks

I imagine the unavoidable costs would be quite high and the costs
provided by TfL would be astronomical. Everything done by TfL costs
about twenty-five times as much as it should. Why should high costs
prevent a Clapham Junction interchange station? Did high costs
discourage TfL from rebuilding Victoria Underground Station?

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 12:45:05 -0000
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
Which is probably used by no one. I suspect the vast majority of people
who
get on at stratford get off at canary wharf.

Not in my experience and I'm one of the many who use it for east to south
trips. Quite a lot get off at London Bridge or Waterloo whilst many others
travel further west. The same can be seen in reverse.

Why would anyone use the jubilee from stratford to go west when they can
just get on the central line?

I'm sure it is useful to some, but it would have been a damn site more
useful
if it had opened up a whole new suburb rather than terminating somewhere
that already has more railway lines than it knows what to do with.

Lining up to such a major interchange is pretty useful already. What suburb
would you have wanted to open up instead? West Silvertown is somewhat

I already said more than once - Thamesmead.

physically constrained and much of the rest of Newham had rail or tube or
DLR links already.

There are these new fangled things called tunnels that solve that particular
issue.

If the tube builders 100 years ago
had thought the same way as the JLE route designers then half of north
london
wouldn't exist in its present form. Cockfosters? Who wants to go there ,
lets
send the piccadilly line to tottenham instead. Edgware? Nothing there,
we'll
terminate at Kilburn - good interchange with the Bakerloo! Etc.

At this stage the emphasis is largely on joining up the dots rather than

Why? The dots were already joined quite enough at stratford.

breaking new ground - the Victoria line kicked that off and the JLE followed
suit by going where the demand was.

Demand from who? By definition there won't be any demand from an area thats
not developed but sending a tube line there usually is the spur to that.
I'm sorry but terminating the JLE at stratford was down to nothing more than
money or lack thereof, don't pretend there was any great plan.

B2003

Boltar wrote

I'm sorry but terminating the JLE at stratford was down to nothing more
than
money or lack thereof, don't pretend there was any great plan.

The motivations for the JLE route were serving Canary Wharf from Waterloo,
serving Canary Wharf from Stratford (DLR did not have enough capacity), the
Dome aka O2, regenerating Bermondsey and Canada Water, and regenerating the
Canning Town area. There were plans for a branch from North Greenwich to
Thamesmead (there may even be passive provision for a junction) but no
funding for this at the time. Now Thamesmead will do better, with the Abbey
Wood branch of Crossrail.

Peter

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 12:45:05 -0000
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
Which is probably used by no one. I suspect the vast majority of people
who
get on at stratford get off at canary wharf.

Not in my experience and I'm one of the many who use it for east to south
trips. Quite a lot get off at London Bridge or Waterloo whilst many others
travel further west. The same can be seen in reverse.

Why would anyone use the jubilee from stratford to go west when they can
just get on the central line?

I'm sure it is useful to some, but it would have been a damn site more
useful
if it had opened up a whole new suburb rather than terminating somewhere
that already has more railway lines than it knows what to do with.

Lining up to such a major interchange is pretty useful already. What suburb
would you have wanted to open up instead? West Silvertown is somewhat

I already said more than once - Thamesmead.

physically constrained and much of the rest of Newham had rail or tube or
DLR links already.

There are these new fangled things called tunnels that solve that particular
issue.

If the tube builders 100 years ago
had thought the same way as the JLE route designers then half of north
london
wouldn't exist in its present form. Cockfosters? Who wants to go there ,
lets
send the piccadilly line to tottenham instead. Edgware? Nothing there,
we'll
terminate at Kilburn - good interchange with the Bakerloo! Etc.

At this stage the emphasis is largely on joining up the dots rather than

Why? The dots were already joined quite enough at stratford.

breaking new ground - the Victoria line kicked that off and the JLE
followed
suit by going where the demand was.

Demand from who? By definition there won't be any demand from an area thats
not developed but sending a tube line there usually is the spur to that.
I'm sorry but terminating the JLE at stratford was down to nothing more than
money or lack thereof, don't pretend there was any great plan.

B2003

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:26:39 -0000
"Peter Masson" wrote:
Boltar wrote

I'm sorry but terminating the JLE at stratford was down to nothing more
than
money or lack thereof, don't pretend there was any great plan.

The motivations for the JLE route were serving Canary Wharf from Waterloo,
serving Canary Wharf from Stratford (DLR did not have enough capacity), the

The DLR had and has plenty of capacity mainly because it has a much more
frequent service.

funding for this at the time. Now Thamesmead will do better, with the Abbey
Wood branch of Crossrail.

You mean to the abbey wood station that already exists? Yes, I'm sure the
residents of thamesmead will be thrilled. Who'd want a tube line where you
live when you can have an old station with a new logo a mile away?

B2003

d wrote on 10 December 2012 12:34:47 ...
On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:26:39 -0000
"Peter Masson" wrote:
Boltar wrote

I'm sorry but terminating the JLE at stratford was down to nothing more
than
money or lack thereof, don't pretend there was any great plan.

The motivations for the JLE route were serving Canary Wharf from Waterloo,
serving Canary Wharf from Stratford (DLR did not have enough capacity), the

The DLR had and has plenty of capacity mainly because it has a much more
frequent service.

Not true. The Jubilee from Stratford to Canary Wharf has 24 tph in the
peaks; the DLR from Stratford to Canary Wharf has 10 tph with
lower-capacity trains, and is limited by part of the route being
single-track.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Thank you for that link. Very interesting and very encouraging. Even
more encouraging were the posts from various enthusiasts agreeing
that an extension to Clapham Junction was a much better idea.

Because the Jubilee Line is quicker and less crowded.