On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:04:46 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message

, at 18:05:11 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:
I've not seen figures but it looks like the Picc carries many more pax to
and from Heathrow than HEx.

HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who had
it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition with
any other rail-based modes.

The official Heathrow touts work very hard to push people towards HEx,
so Heathrow Airport Ltd certainly seems to feel that it's in
competition with Heathrow Connect and the Tube.

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:01:49 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message

, at 16:24:21 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4 (etc)

The latter won't work, as it's a fundamental requirement for Heathrow in
the modern age to be able to move passengers from one terminal to another free of charge.

But not necessarily by underground train -- lots of airports use
inter-terminal buses, as does Heathrow for air-side movements.

Indeed, but Heathrow's layout means that using buses is extremely
inefficient and slow. It would be a major new fleet and an expensive
operation to run. Far simpler just to let the passengers use the trains,
given that the trains are already there.

Are the buses actually slower to get between T4 and T5? You'd need
two Heathrow trains to do it, and they're only 4tpi. The bus route is
fairly direct using the tunnel.

On 16/11/2013 12:43, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 11:40:46 +0000, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 16/11/2013 11:18, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:30:10 +0000, eastender
wrote:

On 2013-11-16 09:04:46 +0000, Roland Perry said:

To get to Dalston
Junction I needed five trains: HEx-Padd, Padd-Edgware Rd, Edgware
Rd-King's Cross, King's Cross-Highbury, Highbury-Dalst J.

Suppose I could have gone via Oxford Circus.

Or via Whitechapel - 1 change to the H&C. Slow but a lot less palaver.

Alternatively I'd have gone to Warren St on the tube and then jumped
on a 27 or 205 bus (assuming you have a Travelcard rather than PAYG).

All depends on how laden down with bags you are I guess.

Why the 27 or 205 - neither of them goes to Dalston Junction?

I did say go to Warren St *on the tube* and change to these buses.
Getting off the Vic Line to street is via two escalators and no steps.
The bus stop is just round the corner and you're dropped right at
Paddington Praed St and avoid all the faff with stairs and narrow
corridors or long walks at Paddington Circle Line or Paddington H&C.

It all depends on how someone weighs the time and convenience factors.
The bus can be fairly quick along the Marylebone Rd IME.

Wasn't he going TO Dalston Junction and not from it?

Of course, it works just as well in reverse although personally I'd have
thought H&C to Whitechapel and then Overground is probably the best
route (as has previously been mentioned)

On 2013-11-16 11:18:43 +0000, Paul Corfield said:

Or via Whitechapel - 1 change to the H&C. Slow but a lot less palaver.

I always forget about that. Anyway, Circle line came first at Edg Rd -
it was freezing and I had no coat.


Alternatively I'd have gone to Warren St on the tube and then jumped
on a 27 or 205 bus (assuming you have a Travelcard rather than PAYG).

Presume that's for going to Paddington or from Paddington to Warren
Street. If I had lots of time i suppose the 205 to Old Street and then
76 almost to my door would do.

E.

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:01:49 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message

, at 16:24:21 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4
(etc)
The latter won't work, as it's a fundamental requirement for Heathrow
in the modern age to be able to move passengers from one terminal to
another free of charge.

But not necessarily by underground train -- lots of airports use
inter-terminal buses, as does Heathrow for air-side movements.

Indeed, but Heathrow's layout means that using buses is extremely
inefficient and slow. It would be a major new fleet and an expensive
operation to run. Far simpler just to let the passengers use the trains,
given that the trains are already there.

Are the buses actually slower to get between T4 and T5? You'd need
two Heathrow trains to do it, and they're only 4tpi. The bus route is
fairly direct using the tunnel.

What route would they take? A long way round the outside of the airport I
would have thought.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:04:46 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message

, at 18:05:11 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:
I've not seen figures but it looks like the Picc carries many more pax
to and from Heathrow than HEx.

HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who had
it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition with
any other rail-based modes.

The official Heathrow touts work very hard to push people towards HEx,
so Heathrow Airport Ltd certainly seems to feel that it's in
competition with Heathrow Connect and the Tube.

Precisely. They exploit ignorance for their private profit. Ugly.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 07:24:37 -0600,
wrote:
Precisely. They exploit ignorance for their private profit. Ugly.

And a tourist tax, as their ticket office won't issue prebooked pick
ups nor through tickets. As they operate on Network Rail metals this
should IMO have been forced on them.

And yes, the HEx touts hack me off. At least in most other
countries transport touts are not officially condoned by the airport
and are kept out of the way.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 07:24:37 -0600,
wrote:

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:01:49 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message

, at 16:24:21 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4
(etc)
The latter won't work, as it's a fundamental requirement for Heathrow
in the modern age to be able to move passengers from one terminal to
another free of charge.

But not necessarily by underground train -- lots of airports use
inter-terminal buses, as does Heathrow for air-side movements.

Indeed, but Heathrow's layout means that using buses is extremely
inefficient and slow. It would be a major new fleet and an expensive
operation to run. Far simpler just to let the passengers use the trains,
given that the trains are already there.

Are the buses actually slower to get between T4 and T5? You'd need
two Heathrow trains to do it, and they're only 4tpi. The bus route is
fairly direct using the tunnel.

What route would they take? A long way round the outside of the airport I
would have thought.

They could go either through the central area, or round the perimeter
road (3.9 miles). For a landside transfer, the latter is probably
better. Bing reckons it's an 11 minute drive; Google obviously drives
faster, and estimates nine minutes. Let's average it at 10 minutes.
Assuming the buses ran fairly frequently, that would beat the two
trains quite easily.

In message , at 12:25:29 on
Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Recliner remarked:
Heathrow's layout means that using buses is extremely
inefficient and slow. It would be a major new fleet and an expensive
operation to run. Far simpler just to let the passengers use the trains,
given that the trains are already there.

Are the buses actually slower to get between T4 and T5? You'd need
two Heathrow trains to do it, and they're only 4tpi. The bus route is
fairly direct using the tunnel.

Are landside buses allowed to use the airside tunnel?

And last time I took the airside bus from T4, it was about a 15 minute
walk from the gate. The official time to allow airside for T4-T5 is 105
minutes!! Even more than the 90 minutes T4-T123.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 10:49:52 on
Sat, 16 Nov 2013, David Walters remarked:
Install barriers and make anyone who hasn't already got a "premium" ticket
buy a (suggest 5 pound!) excess from a machine

These barriers don't seem to restrict the passenger flow at MAD and that's
with this being the only rail connection to the airport

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4 (etc)

Couldn't they just issue free tickets for use between the terminals that
are only available at the terminals? Perhaps only valid for half an hour
or something.

That's similar to what they do at Geneva. A free public transport ticket
available only airside, valid for 80 minutes [to the city, rather than
other terminals].
--
Roland Perry