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David Cantrell · September 3rd 14, 12:13 PM posted to uk.transport.london

On Tue, Sep 02, 2014 at 04:00:52PM +0000, d wrote:
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 11:50:51 +0100
Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 02/09/2014 11:40, d wrote:
Logic actually favours no expansion at all.
By this you mean your logic or the logic you're minded to believe in?

This logic:
Expansion will do next to nothing for UK business
Will add to pollution

Most people don't care much about pollution. They might *say* that they
care but their behaviour disagrees.

Will add to noise

I've addressed that here before. The problem is nothing like as
widespread as is purported, or as severe.

Flights arn't a natural phenomenon that have to be dealt with. They don't
suddenly appear out of the ether. If the airports can't cope with the amount
of flights they shouldn't give the airlines the slots in the first place.
Simple. If they're over capacity its their own damn faults.

They're not over capacity. Heathrow is approaching or at capacity. When
something is operating at its full capacity it becomes fragile, but is
normally still better than the same system operating below capacity.

I await the response that if you build more capacity it will fill up,
and you hear the same argument about road building. Strangely, it's
rarely used when it comes to railways. But in any case if people feel
Apart from HS1 and crossrail, when was the last time a major railway was
built in this country?

Irrelevant. The issue isn't about what was built when, but about people
strangely not decrying them because they are expecting them to actually
be used.

Or to be more precise - which century? And have you
no noticed all the complaining about HS2?

Yes, I've noticed lots of Nimbies.

If we see air travel as a necessity, even if that is an evil necessity,
Do we?

Yes. Taking society as a whole, yes we do. That you personally don't
isn't of any importance.

--
David Cantrell | semi-evolved ape-thing

Today's previously unreported paraphilia is tomorrow's Internet sensation

[email protected] · September 3rd 14, 02:24 PM posted to uk.transport.london

On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:13:20 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
On Tue, Sep 02, 2014 at 04:00:52PM +0000, d wrote:
If we see air travel as a necessity, even if that is an evil necessity,
Do we?

Yes. Taking society as a whole, yes we do. That you personally don't
isn't of any importance.

So you think if a survey was done asking whether air travel was a necessity
like food or water or public transport you think most people would answer
yes?

Really?

--
Spud

David Cantrell · September 4th 14, 10:35 AM posted to uk.transport.london

On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 02:24:12PM +0000, d wrote:
David Cantrell wrote:
wrote:
If we see air travel as a necessity, even if that is an evil necessity,
Do we?
Yes. Taking society as a whole, yes we do. That you personally don't
isn't of any importance.
So you think if a survey was done asking whether air travel was a necessity
like food or water or public transport you think most people would answer
yes?

Of course not. It is, however, a necessity like private ownership of
cars and fast internet connections. That is, it is something that people
want to have available, and they want it enough that they get very
****ed off if it's not available.

There are different levels of needs.

--
David Cantrell | Pope | First Church of the Symmetrical Internet

engineer: n. one who, regardless of how much effort he puts in
to a job, will never satisfy either the suits or the scientists

[email protected] · September 4th 14, 11:10 AM posted to uk.transport.london

On Thu, 04 Sep 2014 11:35:29 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 02:24:12PM +0000, d wrote:
David Cantrell wrote:
wrote:
If we see air travel as a necessity, even if that is an evil necessity,
Do we?
Yes. Taking society as a whole, yes we do. That you personally don't
isn't of any importance.
So you think if a survey was done asking whether air travel was a necessity
like food or water or public transport you think most people would answer
yes?

Of course not. It is, however, a necessity like private ownership of
cars and fast internet connections. That is, it is something that people
want to have available, and they want it enough that they get very
****ed off if it's not available.

There are different levels of needs.

Thats not a need , its a desire. Its not even in the same ballpark.

--
Spud

JNugent[_5_] · September 4th 14, 02:23 PM posted to uk.transport.london

On 04/09/2014 12:10, d wrote:
On Thu, 04 Sep 2014 11:35:29 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 02:24:12PM +0000, d wrote:
David Cantrell wrote:
d wrote:
If we see air travel as a necessity, even if that is an evil necessity,
Do we?
Yes. Taking society as a whole, yes we do. That you personally don't
isn't of any importance.
So you think if a survey was done asking whether air travel was a necessity
like food or water or public transport you think most people would answer
yes?

Of course not. It is, however, a necessity like private ownership of
cars and fast internet connections. That is, it is something that people
want to have available, and they want it enough that they get very
****ed off if it's not available.

There are different levels of needs.

Thats not a need , its a desire. Its not even in the same ballpark.

Needs - in the sense implied by what you say - are very basic and are
satisfied by a medieval economy.

That really can't be what you mean, but it's what you are saying.

[email protected] · September 4th 14, 04:33 PM posted to uk.transport.london

On Thu, 04 Sep 2014 15:23:53 +0100
JNugent wrote:
On 04/09/2014 12:10, d wrote:
Thats not a need , its a desire. Its not even in the same ballpark.

Needs - in the sense implied by what you say - are very basic and are
satisfied by a medieval economy.

That really can't be what you mean, but it's what you are saying.

There needs to be a balance of desires against consequences. Currently wrt
air travel its baised way too far to the former. I'm not saying ban air
travel but I am saying that the presumption that constant growth must always
trump anything else is ********. There are enough aircraft flying into and
through the southeast already. If the air industry isn't satisfied with that
then tough ****. Screw them.

When if ever there are street protests and riots about people not being able
to book a last minute break to Ayia Napa for a hundred quid I might change
my mind. But somehow I don't see that happening.

--
Spud

Neil Williams · September 4th 14, 08:18 PM posted to uk.transport.london

On 2014-09-04 16:33:29 +0000, d said:

When if ever there are street protests and riots about people not being able
to book a last minute break to Ayia Napa for a hundred quid I might change
my mind. But somehow I don't see that happening.

People aren't taking those kinds of holiday from Heathrow. They're
going with the orange and blue teams from Luton, Stansted and Gatwick,
and all three have spare capacity already. So Heathrow expansion has
nothing to do with cheap holidays in the sun (or cheap anything).

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Recliner[_2_] · September 4th 14, 11:24 AM posted to uk.transport.london

On Thu, 04 Sep 2014 11:35:29 +0100, David Cantrell
wrote:

On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 02:24:12PM +0000, d wrote:
David Cantrell wrote:
wrote:
If we see air travel as a necessity, even if that is an evil necessity,
Do we?
Yes. Taking society as a whole, yes we do. That you personally don't
isn't of any importance.
So you think if a survey was done asking whether air travel was a necessity
like food or water or public transport you think most people would answer
yes?

Of course not. It is, however, a necessity like private ownership of
cars and fast internet connections. That is, it is something that people
want to have available, and they want it enough that they get very
****ed off if it's not available.

There are different levels of needs.

The new, expanded 21st century version of Maslow's hierarchy of needs:
http://static.squarespace.com/static...14_revised.png

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