Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 14:36:43 on Wed, 3 Sep 2014, Recliner remarked:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...cus-on-US.html

Interesting, I hadn't seen that.mi suppose it reflects Virgin's change if
ownership, with Singapore's 49% being sold to Delta, which is using Virgin
almost as an offshoot. I imagine it can feed a lot more of its frequent
fliers from the US on to Virgin's transatlantic routes than it could the
routes to Asia and Africa. But it's still sad to see Virgin pulling back
from its world network (having dropped it's hard fought-for Sydney route a
while ago).

Doesn't this simply show that "Virgin" airlines is just Delta (was
Singapore Airlines) with a subsidiary that happens to pay a lot for an
iconic branding. Just like Virgin Media is NTL paying slightly less for the same.

Not quite the same: Virgin Atlantic is still 51% owned by Branson, whereas
he owns very little of Virgin Media which, as you say, is really just a
rebranded NTL. Delta, like Singapore Airlines, wouldn't be allowed to buy a
majority share of Virgin Atlantic. I think it also can't be seen to control
an EU airline, just as Branson had to fight hard to prove he didn't control
Virgin America. Protectionism is alive and well in the airline industry.

SQ never really integrated with Virgin Atlantic, and seemed to treat it
more as an arms length investment rather than an associate (they didn't
even share lounges at Heathrow, nor combine fleet orders). Branson was
always closely associated with VS's management, which he's never been with
Virgin Media, where he just appears in some of the ads. SQ eventually
decided to put its investment up for sale, and when the change did happen,
it didn't affect Virgin's operations as there was minimal integration. SQ
made a loss on the sale, and probably wished it had never made the
investment.

It looks like Virgin, like other European airlines, has been hit hard by
the Middle East Big Three airlines, making some of its long haul Asian,
Australian and African routes unprofitable. It seems to be returning to its
roots (and name), to concentrate on its US routes (where it doesn't have to
compete with Emirates, etc), particularly to Skyteam hubs. I guess VS will
soon join Skyteam, whereas it never joined Star during its many SQ years.

In message

, at 15:19:19 on Wed, 3 Sep 2014, Recliner
remarked:

Doesn't this simply show that "Virgin" airlines is just Delta (was
Singapore Airlines) with a subsidiary that happens to pay a lot for an
iconic branding. Just like Virgin Media is NTL paying slightly less for the same.

Not quite the same

I'm quite sure it's much more "the same" than the picture you paint
(that picture being what they want us to believe).
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 15:19:19 on Wed, 3 Sep 2014, Recliner remarked:

Doesn't this simply show that "Virgin" airlines is just Delta (was
Singapore Airlines) with a subsidiary that happens to pay a lot for an
iconic branding. Just like Virgin Media is NTL paying slightly less for the same.

Not quite the same

I'm quite sure it's much more "the same" than the picture you paint (that
picture being what they want us to believe).

The key point is that an EU airline has to be majority owned and seen to be
controlled by EU entities. There's no such rule for cable TV or mobile
phone companies, and Virgin Media is a US-owned and controlled company. So
even if Branson was happy to sell most of his 51% of VS to Delta (which he
might well be), he couldn't. He could, of course, sell it to Air
France-KLM, and maybe that will happen.

In message

, at 15:54:49 on Wed, 3 Sep 2014, Recliner
remarked:
Doesn't this simply show that "Virgin" airlines is just Delta (was
Singapore Airlines) with a subsidiary that happens to pay a lot for an
iconic branding. Just like Virgin Media is NTL paying slightly less for the same.

Not quite the same

I'm quite sure it's much more "the same" than the picture you paint (that
picture being what they want us to believe).

The key point is that an EU airline has to be majority owned and seen to be
controlled by EU entities. There's no such rule for cable TV or mobile
phone companies, and Virgin Media is a US-owned and controlled company. So
even if Branson was happy to sell most of his 51% of VS to Delta (which he
might well be), he couldn't. He could, of course, sell it to Air
France-KLM, and maybe that will happen.

The percentage shareholding is not inextricably linked to who makes
decisions about which routes to operate on a day to day basis.
--
Roland Perry