On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:06:11 +0000, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2014-11-26 18:32:41 +0000, said:

I presume that is why the PIS on some 377s says which coach one is in.

Yes, it's been modified to do that, which is why you get oddities like
the destination scrolling in the second row even where it doesn't need
to. Originally it was first line destination, second line scrolling
stopping points, no coach numbers.

Though it surprised me they didn't use the national standard of letters
rather than numbers.

Well, the "Southern Region" has always been different, hasn't it, with
an extremely long history of trains splitting and joining, and because
every announcement is and always has been in terms of numbers of
coaches (or even better, cars), I think it makes sense. If you have
been told "front 4 coaches" on the displays and announcements, the
best description once on the train would be "coach 3 of 8" to put your
mind at rest.

You'll be pleased to hear that the class 395 displays include a coach
letter, which is almost never mentioned, except perhaps by the guard's
announcement to help locate the tiolets. I've never been on a HS1
service that split, I suppose the back of the train becomes G-L.

I write "guard"... the timetable data shows the services as OPO, and I
noticed recently that as well as not opening the doors (I'm used to
SWT!), they don't seem to close them either. My follow-up question:
has a 395 ever run in service, driver only?

Richard.

In article ,
(Mark Bestley) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 13:06:57
on Thu, 27 Nov 2014, David Cantrell remarked:
Short platform lengths at some stations limit
future lengthening.
I don't understand this. Are people really too ****ing stupid to
understand announcements like "passengers for Some Station must
travel in the front four carriages"? Cos those work just fine
elsewhere on the rail network.
With ungangwayed 4-car units it's not always obvious which one you
are in without getting out and having a look ...

Hence all the "this is coach [pause] 5 [pause] of [pause] 8"
announcements.

None of the (splitting) trains I've been on have that sort of
announcement.

A standard Southern message on I think all 377s not just those that
split. (I forget if 455s have this as a screen message)

The 455s are way behind the 377s, especially the Southern ones.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 2014-11-27 13:36:53 +0000, Roland Perry said:

None of the (splitting) trains I've been on have that sort of announcement.

All Southern trains (possibly not the very newest ones as they have a
different PIS) have that announcement regardless of whether they are
splitting or not.

LM's Desiros do it differently and just announce the relevant
destination in each coach and a "move forward/back" type announcement,
with "This part for X" on the outside. Not seen any other TOC automate
it.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 01:14:27PM +0000, d wrote:

South london is already oversubscribed with national rail services, it didn't
need another.

When compared to the north that's true. However, you need to look at it
in the context of having hardly any tube service. If you look at rail
services in toto - both TfL and NR, tube and overground - the density of
stations is probably about the same if you ignore the bit inside the
Circle line. The differences are that there are more junctions and
changes in the south, and a lower frequency service in the south.

The Overground (what a stupid brand that is) doesn't solve the frequency
problem. That can only be solved by a dramatic simplification of the
network. It does introduce a few more routes that can be travelled
without having to change (passengers don't particularly like having to
change trains), and creates some convenient ways to travel which avoid
central London bottlenecks. It is an improvement on what we had before,
just not a very big one.

It has made travel from south London to east and west London easier, and
has made travel from east London to north and south London easier, which
has got to be a good thing.

Some examples. The first time I worked for the BBC out in White City, I
had to get a train into Victoria, then two tubes, changing at two of the
busiest stations on the network - Victoria and Oxford Circus - with all
the attendant hassle and not getting a seat. With the Overground, I
avoided those. And the first time I worked in Shoreditch, I had to get a
train into Victoria and then the District line - again, changing at a
stupidly busy station onto a stupidly busy service. With the Overground
I can avoid Victoria, and I usually get a seat. If those orbital
services from Clapham Junction didn't exist, I doubt I would have
considered working in those places again. The Overground opens up more
jobs to more people, makes more potential recruits available to more
employers, reduces congestion and overcrowding - what's not to like?

--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

Do not be afraid of cooking, as your ingredients will know and misbehave
-- Fergus Henderson

On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 06:10:05PM -0600, wrote:

The 455s are way behind the 377s, especially the Southern ones.

Alas, they're often in front, broken down :-)

--
David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age

Us Germans take our humour very seriously
-- German cultural attache talking to the Today Programme,
about the German supposed lack of a sense of humour, 29 Aug 2001

On 27.11.14 13:36, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:06:57
on Thu, 27 Nov 2014, David Cantrell remarked:
Short platform lengths at some stations limit
future lengthening.
I don't understand this. Are people really too ****ing stupid to
understand announcements like "passengers for Some Station must travel
in the front four carriages"? Cos those work just fine elsewhere on the
rail network.
With ungangwayed 4-car units it's not always obvious which one you are
in without getting out and having a look ...

Hence all the "this is coach [pause] 5 [pause] of [pause] 8"
announcements.

None of the (splitting) trains I've been on have that sort of announcement.

I hear it all the time on trains out of Victoria via Eastbourne.

In message , at 00:50:10 on Sun, 30 Nov
2014, " remarked:
With ungangwayed 4-car units it's not always obvious which one you are
in without getting out and having a look ...

Hence all the "this is coach [pause] 5 [pause] of [pause] 8"
announcements.

None of the (splitting) trains I've been on have that sort of announcement.

I hear it all the time on trains out of Victoria via Eastbourne.

Yes, I think we've established there are announcements sarf of the
river, but that's not the routes I travel on that have splitting trains.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 00:50:10 on Sun, 30 Nov
2014, " remarked:
With ungangwayed 4-car units it's not always obvious which one you
are in without getting out and having a look ...

Hence all the "this is coach [pause] 5 [pause] of [pause] 8"
announcements.

None of the (splitting) trains I've been on have that sort of
announcement.

I hear it all the time on trains out of Victoria via Eastbourne.

Yes, I think we've established there are announcements sarf of the
river, but that's not the routes I travel on that have splitting
trains.

You just haven't lived!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:47:05PM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 00:50:10 on Sun, 30 Nov
2014, " remarked:
With ungangwayed 4-car units it's not always obvious which one you are
in without getting out and having a look ...
Hence all the "this is coach [pause] 5 [pause] of [pause] 8"
announcements.
None of the (splitting) trains I've been on have that sort of announcement.
I hear it all the time on trains out of Victoria via Eastbourne.
Yes, I think we've established there are announcements sarf of the
river, but that's not the routes I travel on that have splitting trains.

That doesn't matter. That they exist in some places, and that passengers
can cope with having to be in particular carriages to go to some
stations, demonstrates that there is no good reason to not have trains
that are longer than some platforms.

--
David Cantrell | Pope | First Church of the Symmetrical Internet

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you're reading it in English, thank Chaucer.

In message , at 12:26:29
on Mon, 1 Dec 2014, David Cantrell remarked:
With ungangwayed 4-car units it's not always obvious which one you are
in without getting out and having a look ...
Hence all the "this is coach [pause] 5 [pause] of [pause] 8"
announcements.
None of the (splitting) trains I've been on have that sort of announcement.
I hear it all the time on trains out of Victoria via Eastbourne.
Yes, I think we've established there are announcements sarf of the
river, but that's not the routes I travel on that have splitting trains.

That doesn't matter. That they exist in some places, and that passengers
can cope with having to be in particular carriages to go to some
stations, demonstrates that there is no good reason to not have trains
that are longer than some platforms.

A lot of double negatives there.

When I lived in Nottingham the HSTs only opened about 2/3 of their doors
at Loughborough on account of a short[1] platform. That was announced on
train and people seemed to cope.

I also recall trains at Wokingham that were so long the rear few
carriages routinely overlapped the level crossing and people were
discouraged from leaping out of them.

But neither of these is a case of "splitting trains" where people on the
line I use are told to be "in the front half" on arrival at the
splitting station, without any means to know whether they are or aren't.

As a result it's commonplace to see people getting out of their seats
and onto the platform to have a look.

[1] It used to be longer, until H&S decreed that the bit beyond a rather
low over-bridge was no longer logically a platform.
--
Roland Perry