I notice that the 125 bus has a new fleet of buses which look a tiny bit
like Borisbuses, but are not. Having spent all that money on designing a
New Bus For London, I imagined that it would replace all of the
double-deckers as they became life-expired, but it would seem not. Is
the Borisbus considered a failure? Have they stopped making them
already? Was it only ever going to be used in touristy areas, and if so,
why?

On 27/02/2015 16:25, Basil Jet wrote:
I notice that the 125 bus has a new fleet of buses which look a tiny bit
like Borisbuses, but are not. Having spent all that money on designing a
New Bus For London, I imagined that it would replace all of the
double-deckers as they became life-expired, but it would seem not. Is
the Borisbus considered a failure? Have they stopped making them
already? Was it only ever going to be used in touristy areas, and if so,
why?

That'll be the Wright Eclipse Gemini 3 body - and yes, it does look a
bit New Routemaster-esque - I think someone else commented on this here
a while back, and I certainly thought it the first time I saw one of
these buses in 2013 (?). It's the shallower top-deck windows that does
it, I think:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/wirewiping/16395155167

https://www.flickr.com/photos/londonbusbreh1912/16615416021


Re the NBFL / New Routemasters (aka Boris buses) - as of October 2014,
only half the initial 600 ordered had been delivered, and TfL ordered an
extra 200 - so they're definitely still being manufactured.

There was never any plan that the NBFL would replace all other double
deckers.

Regarding the success or otherwise of the NBFL - well, despite some
assurances that all was now well, I think the issue of them getting too
hot in the summer - hence the Roastmaster nickname - is perhaps a
fundamental flaw in the design. They really aren't very pleasant when
it's hot, especially upstairs. Perhaps I'll reserve ultimate judgement
until this summer, but I'm not enormously hopeful.

Also, a number of NBFL routes are now operated without a conductor
throughout the day, so the much heralded opportunity to hop-on and
hop-off the rear platform doesn't exist (there's a door there instead).
And in terms of the potential for fare evasion - which was a significant
part of the Boris critique of bendy buses - the NBFL has three doors
which can all be used for entry and exit, and on those routes with a
conductor they nonetheless don't do any ticket checking - instead they
guard the back door (I've seen some looking out for possible fare
evasion, but they can't really roam from the rear platform).

Lets say I wouldn't put the NBFL in the unqualified success category.

On 2015-02-27 16:52:31 +0000, Mizter T said:

Regarding the success or otherwise of the NBFL - well, despite some
assurances that all was now well, I think the issue of them getting too
hot in the summer - hence the Roastmaster nickname - is perhaps a
fundamental flaw in the design. They really aren't very pleasant when
it's hot, especially upstairs. Perhaps I'll reserve ultimate judgement
until this summer, but I'm not enormously hopeful.

I think they will either have to fit opening windows or full-on aircon,
which of course will both hit fuel consumption of an already heavy bus.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 27/02/2015 17:38, Neil Williams wrote:

On 2015-02-27 16:52:31 +0000, Mizter T said:

Regarding the success or otherwise of the NBFL - well, despite some
assurances that all was now well, I think the issue of them getting
too hot in the summer - hence the Roastmaster nickname - is perhaps a
fundamental flaw in the design. They really aren't very pleasant when
it's hot, especially upstairs. Perhaps I'll reserve ultimate judgement
until this summer, but I'm not enormously hopeful.

I think they will either have to fit opening windows or full-on aircon,
which of course will both hit fuel consumption of an already heavy bus.

Full aircon on a bus with an always open door doesn't seem like a winner.

I think Paul C has previously speculated that fitting opening windows
upstairs might not be structurally possible on the NBFL.

Certainly, other better ventilated buses - with opening windows and
forced air ventilation systems - were more pleasant than stuffy NBFLs on
hot days.

On 2015-02-27 17:50:33 +0000, Mizter T said:

Full aircon on a bus with an always open door doesn't seem like a winner.

Shops manage it, using those air curtain things. So there might be a way.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 27/02/2015 16:52, Mizter T wrote:

On 27/02/2015 16:25, Basil Jet wrote:
I notice that the 125 bus has a new fleet of buses which look a tiny bit
like Borisbuses, but are not. Having spent all that money on designing a
New Bus For London, I imagined that it would replace all of the
double-deckers as they became life-expired, but it would seem not. Is
the Borisbus considered a failure? Have they stopped making them
already? Was it only ever going to be used in touristy areas, and if so,
why?

[big snip]

Regarding the success or otherwise of the NBFL - well, despite some
assurances that all was now well, I think the issue of them getting too
hot in the summer - hence the Roastmaster nickname - is perhaps a
fundamental flaw in the design. They really aren't very pleasant when
it's hot, especially upstairs. Perhaps I'll reserve ultimate judgement
until this summer, but I'm not enormously hopeful.


Just to follow this up - they're still too bloody hot and stuffy. Yes,
yesterday was exceptional, but I didn't get on one yesterday - I have
got on them in recent days and weeks when the weather has been hot but
also just unexceptionally warm.

A friend could only stand it for one stop on Tuesday. If there's a
choice, in warm weather I'll choose a route served by another type of
bus that has opening windows! The forced air circulation systems on
other types of bus seem to do a better job too.

They might look good from the outside (though I grant that's a
subjective opinion) - but they fail in a very basic way in terms of
offering a pleasant or even adequate environment for passengers. And
that's being kind - they offer a deeply unpleasant sauna in summer months.

The bendy buses could get a bit too hot too - but not like this.

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

On 27/02/2015 16:52, Mizter T wrote:

On 27/02/2015 16:25, Basil Jet wrote:
I notice that the 125 bus has a new fleet of buses which look a tiny
bit like Borisbuses, but are not. Having spent all that money on
designing a New Bus For London, I imagined that it would replace all of
the double-deckers as they became life-expired, but it would seem not.
Is the Borisbus considered a failure? Have they stopped making them
already? Was it only ever going to be used in touristy areas, and if
so, why?

[big snip]

Regarding the success or otherwise of the NBFL - well, despite some
assurances that all was now well, I think the issue of them getting too
hot in the summer - hence the Roastmaster nickname - is perhaps a
fundamental flaw in the design. They really aren't very pleasant when
it's hot, especially upstairs. Perhaps I'll reserve ultimate judgement
until this summer, but I'm not enormously hopeful.


Just to follow this up - they're still too bloody hot and stuffy.
Yes, yesterday was exceptional, but I didn't get on one yesterday - I
have got on them in recent days and weeks when the weather has been
hot but also just unexceptionally warm.

A friend could only stand it for one stop on Tuesday. If there's a
choice, in warm weather I'll choose a route served by another type of
bus that has opening windows! The forced air circulation systems on
other types of bus seem to do a better job too.

They might look good from the outside (though I grant that's a
subjective opinion) - but they fail in a very basic way in terms of
offering a pleasant or even adequate environment for passengers. And
that's being kind - they offer a deeply unpleasant sauna in summer
months.

The bendy buses could get a bit too hot too - but not like this.

At least the Borisbuses don't catch fire!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 02/07/2015 19:22, wrote:

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

Just to follow this up - they're still too bloody hot and stuffy.
Yes, yesterday was exceptional, but I didn't get on one yesterday - I
have got on them in recent days and weeks when the weather has been
hot but also just unexceptionally warm.

A friend could only stand it for one stop on Tuesday. If there's a
choice, in warm weather I'll choose a route served by another type of
bus that has opening windows! The forced air circulation systems on
other types of bus seem to do a better job too.

They might look good from the outside (though I grant that's a
subjective opinion) - but they fail in a very basic way in terms of
offering a pleasant or even adequate environment for passengers. And
that's being kind - they offer a deeply unpleasant sauna in summer
months.

The bendy buses could get a bit too hot too - but not like this.

At least the Borisbuses don't catch fire!


The passengers just catch on fire instead!

(Modifications to the Citaro bendy buses sorted that problem out.)

On Thu, 02 Jul 2015 19:27:28 +0100
Mizter T wrote:
The passengers just catch on fire instead!

(Modifications to the Citaro bendy buses sorted that problem out.)

Wonder how they're coping in the 40C heat of a Maltese summer!

--
Spud

In article , (Basil Jet)
wrote:

I notice that the 125 bus has a new fleet of buses which look a tiny
bit like Borisbuses, but are not. Having spent all that money on
designing a New Bus For London, I imagined that it would replace all
of the double-deckers as they became life-expired, but it would seem
not. Is the Borisbus considered a failure? Have they stopped making
them already? Was it only ever going to be used in touristy areas,
and if so, why?

Looks like a pretty bog standard modern bus to me.

--
Colin Rosenstiel