At places such as Lewisham, the Central London "plough" system of
underground electrical pick-up gave way to the familiar "overhead"
system. At that point "the plough" was disconnected, and went off
into a siding; the overhead pick-up was hooked to the overhead
cable, and the tram continued its journey.
I only know this because my father-in-law told me - he used to
watch it in Lewisham High Street - but there must be film of such
an interesting changeover; I'd love to watch it for myself. Does
anyone have a link. When I Google "tram" and "plough" this film
comes up. Doesn't look too safe to me LOL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTjRUT98lvE

It's called a 'Change pit', and the operation is shown in the film 'The Elephant Will Never Forget', about the last week of the trams in London, in 1952.

In article ,
(Harrison Hill) wrote:

At places such as Lewisham, the Central London "plough" system of
underground electrical pick-up gave way to the familiar "overhead"
system. At that point "the plough" was disconnected, and went off
into a siding; the overhead pick-up was hooked to the overhead
cable, and the tram continued its journey.
I only know this because my father-in-law told me - he used to
watch it in Lewisham High Street - but there must be film of such
an interesting changeover; I'd love to watch it for myself. Does
anyone have a link. When I Google "tram" and "plough" this film
comes up. Doesn't look too safe to me LOL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTjRUT98lvE

Look for "The Elephant Will Never Forget" a 1952 film about Last Tram Week.
About 1'20" in starts the bit about plough change pits.

The changeovers took place with the trams drawing power from the overhead so
the ploughs were not live.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Friday, 3 July 2015 18:16:44 UTC+1, wrote:
In article ,
(Harrison Hill) wrote:

At places such as Lewisham, the Central London "plough" system of
underground electrical pick-up gave way to the familiar "overhead"
system. At that point "the plough" was disconnected, and went off
into a siding; the overhead pick-up was hooked to the overhead
cable, and the tram continued its journey.
I only know this because my father-in-law told me - he used to
watch it in Lewisham High Street - but there must be film of such
an interesting changeover; I'd love to watch it for myself. Does
anyone have a link. When I Google "tram" and "plough" this film
comes up. Doesn't look too safe to me LOL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTjRUT98lvE

Look for "The Elephant Will Never Forget" a 1952 film about Last Tram Week.
About 1'20" in starts the bit about plough change pits.

The changeovers took place with the trams drawing power from the overhead so
the ploughs were not live.

Thanks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc9gtJndKE4

On 03/07/2015 16:23, Harrison Hill wrote:
At places such as Lewisham, the Central London "plough" system of
underground electrical pick-up gave way to the familiar "overhead"
system. At that point "the plough" was disconnected, and went off
into a siding; the overhead pick-up was hooked to the overhead
cable, and the tram continued its journey.
I only know this because my father-in-law told me - he used to
watch it in Lewisham High Street - but there must be film of such
an interesting changeover; I'd love to watch it for myself. Does
anyone have a link. When I Google "tram" and "plough" this film
comes up. Doesn't look too safe to me LOL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTjRUT98lvE

Are you sure it was Lewisham High Street? I lived in Lewisham (Loampit
Hill) all through the war, and I am sure that the Grove Park bound trams
(52 & 54, also 58 to Victoria via Dulwich) did not change over until
further south, certainly beyond the Town Hall where the 66 & 74 from
Southend Lane joined them. The Beresford Square bound trams (46 & 72)
changed at Lee Green on Lee High Road. Further out at the Middle Park
Avenue roundabout where the 46 (via Eltham Hill) and 72 (via Westhorne
Avenue) divided I witnessed an interesting situation where the driver
did not change the points at the right time and the tram went in one
direction while its trolley pole went in the other (not for long!).

I've got a couple of old videos, Online Video/The Huntley Archive London
Trams Parts 1 & 2, must have a look at them and see if they help.

Peter Beale

In message , Peter Beale
wrote:
Are you sure it was Lewisham High Street? I lived in Lewisham (Loampit
Hill) all through the war, and I am sure that the Grove Park bound
trams (52 & 54, also 58 to Victoria via Dulwich) did not change over
until further south, certainly beyond the Town Hall where the 66 & 74
from Southend Lane joined them. The Beresford Square bound trams (46 &
72) changed at Lee Green on Lee High Road.

I've just checked a 1932 tramway track plan. Starting at the river and
going clockwise, the change pits we
[36, 38, 40] Woolwich High Street immediately east of the ferry
[46, 72] Eltham Road immediately east of Burnt Ash Road
[52, 54, 74] Downham Way immediately east of Bromley Road
[16, 18] Streatham High Road at Gleneagle Road
[6] London Road just south of Southcroft Road
[2, 4] Tooting High Street just north of Longley Road
[14] Wimbledon Road / Plough Lane intersection
[26, 28, 30] Putney Bridge Road just north of West Hill
[9, 19] Archway Road immediately north of Archway Tavern
[21, 29, 41, 51, 71] Green Lanes immediately north of Seven Sisters Rd
[27, 53, 59, 79] Seven Sisters Rd immediately east of Green Lanes
[53] Oamhurst Park immediately west of Stamford Hill
[49, 71] Stamford Hill immediately north of Oamhurst Park
[55, 57, 81] Lea Bridge Road immediately east of Upper Clapton Road
[77] Well Street immediately east of Ware Street
[61, 63] Mile End Road immediately east of Grove Road[*]
[77] Burdett Road immediately north of Commercial Road [+]
[65, 67] East India Dock Road just west of the Iron Bridge, some
distance east of Aberfeldy Street
[*] An eastbound tram could change to overhead and then reverse while on
the overhead and turn north into Grove Road, then either continue to
Well Street or reverse again and run south on Burdett Road.
[+] I believe this is only for the connection on to Commercial Road. The
77 continued south to terminate a short distance later on West India
Dock Road; presumably it did so on overhead.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On 11/07/2015 19:53, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In message , Peter Beale
wrote:
Are you sure it was Lewisham High Street? I lived in Lewisham (Loampit
Hill) all through the war, and I am sure that the Grove Park bound
trams (52 & 54, also 58 to Victoria via Dulwich) did not change over
until further south, certainly beyond the Town Hall where the 66 & 74
from Southend Lane joined them. The Beresford Square bound trams (46 &
72) changed at Lee Green on Lee High Road.

I've just checked a 1932 tramway track plan. Starting at the river and
going clockwise, the change pits we
[36, 38, 40] Woolwich High Street immediately east of the ferry
[46, 72] Eltham Road immediately east of Burnt Ash Road
[52, 54, 74] Downham Way immediately east of Bromley Road

Thanks, Clive. I thought it was in Downham Way that they changed. They
only had a very short stretch under the wires before reaching the Grove
Park Station terminus. The 46 and 72 did indeed change at Lee Green, but
my memory (it was a long time ago) had them on the Lewisham side of
Burnt Ash Road rather than the Eltham side.

I was also wrong about the 66, which went from Forest Hill via Brockley
and did not get to Lewisham. I meant the 62 (Blackwall Tunnel to Savoy
St Strand, weekdays only - I always used to wonder who 'St Strand' was).

Peter Beale

In message , Peter Beale
wrote:
I've just checked a 1932 tramway track plan. Starting at the river and
going clockwise, the change pits we
[36, 38, 40] Woolwich High Street immediately east of the ferry
[46, 72] Eltham Road immediately east of Burnt Ash Road
[52, 54, 74] Downham Way immediately east of Bromley Road

Thanks, Clive. I thought it was in Downham Way that they changed. They
only had a very short stretch under the wires before reaching the Grove
Park Station terminus.

Hmm, so they did.

The 46 and 72 did indeed change at Lee Green, but my memory (it was a
long time ago) had them on the Lewisham side of Burnt Ash Road rather
than the Eltham side.

I've just noticed a note that says the overhead continued west to just
beyond the crossover on the Lewisham side of Burnt Ash Road. That could
be why you thought that.

The other interesting note is that until 1927 the 44, 46, and 72 ran
under trolleybus wiring between Woolwich and the Eltham Road change pit
(or Eltham Church for the 44) to prevent interference with the RGO.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On 13/07/2015 21:15, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In message , Peter Beale
wrote:
I've just checked a 1932 tramway track plan. Starting at the river and
going clockwise, the change pits we
[36, 38, 40] Woolwich High Street immediately east of the ferry
[46, 72] Eltham Road immediately east of Burnt Ash Road
[52, 54, 74] Downham Way immediately east of Bromley Road

Thanks, Clive. I thought it was in Downham Way that they changed. They
only had a very short stretch under the wires before reaching the
Grove Park Station terminus.

Hmm, so they did.

The 46 and 72 did indeed change at Lee Green, but my memory (it was a
long time ago) had them on the Lewisham side of Burnt Ash Road rather
than the Eltham side.

I've just noticed a note that says the overhead continued west to just
beyond the crossover on the Lewisham side of Burnt Ash Road. That could
be why you thought that.

I don't think I can make that excuse - it was certainly the change pit
itself that I had in mind. Probably there was a tram stop on the
Lewisham side, so the conductor had a good opportunity to put the pole
up, then the tram could continue without stopping over the change pit.

The other interesting note is that until 1927 the 44, 46, and 72 ran
under trolleybus wiring between Woolwich and the Eltham Road change pit
(or Eltham Church for the 44) to prevent interference with the RGO.

That is interesting - do you mean they had twin wires like trolleybuses
- did they use both trolley poles? Pardon my ignorance, but what is RGO?
There were of course no trolleybuses between Woolwich and Eltham or Lee
Green, the 696 and 698 went from Woolwich Free Ferry towards Plumstead
and Erith.

Peter Beale

In article , (Peter
Beale) wrote:

On 13/07/2015 21:15, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In message , Peter Beale
wrote:
I've just checked a 1932 tramway track plan. Starting at the river and
going clockwise, the change pits we
[36, 38, 40] Woolwich High Street immediately east of the ferry
[46, 72] Eltham Road immediately east of Burnt Ash Road
[52, 54, 74] Downham Way immediately east of Bromley Road

Thanks, Clive. I thought it was in Downham Way that they changed. They
only had a very short stretch under the wires before reaching the
Grove Park Station terminus.

Hmm, so they did.

The 46 and 72 did indeed change at Lee Green, but my memory (it was a
long time ago) had them on the Lewisham side of Burnt Ash Road rather
than the Eltham side.

I've just noticed a note that says the overhead continued west to just
beyond the crossover on the Lewisham side of Burnt Ash Road. That could
be why you thought that.

I don't think I can make that excuse - it was certainly the change
pit itself that I had in mind. Probably there was a tram stop on the
Lewisham side, so the conductor had a good opportunity to put the
pole up, then the tram could continue without stopping over the
change pit.

The other interesting note is that until 1927 the 44, 46, and 72 ran
under trolleybus wiring between Woolwich and the Eltham Road change pit
(or Eltham Church for the 44) to prevent interference with the RGO.

That is interesting - do you mean they had twin wires like
trolleybuses - did they use both trolley poles? Pardon my ignorance,
but what is RGO? There were of course no trolleybuses between
Woolwich and Eltham or Lee Green, the 696 and 698 went from Woolwich
Free Ferry towards Plumstead and Erith.

Trams used both their trolley poles on that section with no return through
the rails. They were only a bit like trolleybuses because they used skates
not trolley wheels.

The RGO is the Royal Greenwich Observatory which moved to Sussex in 1927.

--
Colin Rosenstiel