Recliner wrote:

Did Sadiq ever promise to freeze all fares or only TfL fares? Surely
only the latter, in which case he won't be breaking his promise. He's
a lawyer, so I can't believe he'd promise to freeze something he had
no control over.

The exact wording in the manifesto was:

"I will freeze all TfL fares and charges for the Mayor’s cycle hire
scheme for four years"

Strictly speaking you can argue he is meeting that pledge, however he
certainly wasn't going out of his way to point out it would make no
difference to many commuters.

For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

Peter Smyth

In article , (Peter Smyth)
wrote:

Recliner wrote:

Did Sadiq ever promise to freeze all fares or only TfL fares? Surely
only the latter, in which case he won't be breaking his promise. He's
a lawyer, so I can't believe he'd promise to freeze something he had
no control over.

The exact wording in the manifesto was:

"I will freeze all TfL fares and charges for the Mayor_s cycle hire
scheme for four years"

Strictly speaking you can argue he is meeting that pledge, however he
certainly wasn't going out of his way to point out it would make no
difference to many commuters.

For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

Hence my earlier point about the baleful legacy of the Southern Railway for
South London.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Peter Smyth wrote:
Recliner wrote:

Did Sadiq ever promise to freeze all fares or only TfL fares? Surely
only the latter, in which case he won't be breaking his promise. He's
a lawyer, so I can't believe he'd promise to freeze something he had
no control over.

The exact wording in the manifesto was:

"I will freeze all TfL fares and charges for the Mayor’s cycle hire
scheme for four years"

Strictly speaking you can argue he is meeting that pledge, however he
certainly wasn't going out of his way to point out it would make no
difference to many commuters.

For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

True, though he does correctly say, "Sadiq Khan has a clear and costed plan
to freeze all TfL fares for the next four years, so you will not pay a
penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016."

He certainly doesn't say he will freeze *all* fares, only all TfL fares.

On 10/06/2016 22:42, Recliner wrote:
Peter Smyth wrote:
Recliner wrote:

Did Sadiq ever promise to freeze all fares or only TfL fares? Surely
only the latter, in which case he won't be breaking his promise. He's
a lawyer, so I can't believe he'd promise to freeze something he had
no control over.

The exact wording in the manifesto was:

"I will freeze all TfL fares and charges for the Mayor’s cycle hire
scheme for four years"

Strictly speaking you can argue he is meeting that pledge, however he
certainly wasn't going out of his way to point out it would make no
difference to many commuters.

For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

True, though he does correctly say, "Sadiq Khan has a clear and costed plan
to freeze all TfL fares for the next four years, so you will not pay a
penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016."

He certainly doesn't say he will freeze *all* fares, only all TfL fares.

In that case, his promise is a non-sequitur for many Londoners, as
anyone who can remember the "supplementary rates" debacle(s).

For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.

On 12/06/2016 17:48, JNugent wrote:

On 10/06/2016 22:42, Recliner wrote:
[...]
For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

True, though he does correctly say, "Sadiq Khan has a clear and costed
plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next four years, so you will
not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016."

He certainly doesn't say he will freeze *all* fares, only all TfL fares.

In that case, his promise is a non-sequitur for many Londoners, as
anyone who can remember the "supplementary rates" debacle(s).

For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.

If you are referring to rail fares from Bromley, Bexley or Kingston on
Thames, then these are NR fares not TfL fares. Simple fact.

Yes, we all know that; but many non-enthusiasts don't.
When such non-enthusiasts are told "you will not pay a
penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016" they do not analyse
the small print for weasel escape clauses. They take such
promises at face value, and that was what Sadiq Khan was
counting on.

On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 3:37:02 AM UTC+1, Robin9 wrote:
Mizter T;156169 Wrote:
On 12/06/2016 17:48, JNugent wrote:
-
On 10/06/2016 22:42, Recliner wrote:--
[...]
For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of
Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley-

True, though he does correctly say, "Sadiq Khan has a clear and costed
plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next four years, so you will
not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016."

He certainly doesn't say he will freeze *all* fares, only all TfL
fares.-

In that case, his promise is a non-sequitur for many Londoners, as
anyone who can remember the "supplementary rates" debacle(s).

For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.-

If you are referring to rail fares from Bromley, Bexley or Kingston on
Thames, then these are NR fares not TfL fares. Simple fact.

Yes, we all know that; but many non-enthusiasts don't.
When such non-enthusiasts are told "you will not pay a
penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016" they do not analyse
the small print for weasel escape clauses. They take such
promises at face value, and that was what Sadiq Khan was
counting on.


It was deceptive to say the least. One wonders how long it will take Borough of Croydon, and the Royal Borough Kingston-Upon-Thames to realize that they would be better off as unitary authorities outwith the GLA monolith.

e27002 wrote:
On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 3:37:02 AM UTC+1, Robin9 wrote:
Mizter T;156169 Wrote:
On 12/06/2016 17:48, JNugent wrote:
-
On 10/06/2016 22:42, Recliner wrote:--
[...]
For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of
Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley-

True, though he does correctly say, "Sadiq Khan has a clear and costed
plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next four years, so you will
not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016."

He certainly doesn't say he will freeze *all* fares, only all TfL
fares.-

In that case, his promise is a non-sequitur for many Londoners, as
anyone who can remember the "supplementary rates" debacle(s).

For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.-

If you are referring to rail fares from Bromley, Bexley or Kingston on
Thames, then these are NR fares not TfL fares. Simple fact.

Yes, we all know that; but many non-enthusiasts don't.
When such non-enthusiasts are told "you will not pay a
penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016" they do not analyse
the small print for weasel escape clauses. They take such
promises at face value, and that was what Sadiq Khan was
counting on.


It was deceptive to say the least. One wonders how long it will take
Borough of Croydon, and the Royal Borough Kingston-Upon-Thames to realize
that they would be better off as unitary authorities outwith the GLA monolith.

Yes, I'm sure that losing their Freedom Passes would be really popular
among the residents of those boroughs! No doubt, higher tram fares would
also raise a cheer. But I wonder why you cite Croydon, which does have TfL
services, rather than Bromley and Bexley, which don't?

On 12/06/2016 18:19, Mizter T wrote:

On 12/06/2016 17:48, JNugent wrote:
On 10/06/2016 22:42, Recliner wrote:

[...]

For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

True, though he does correctly say, "Sadiq Khan has a clear and costed
plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next four years, so you will
not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016."
He certainly doesn't say he will freeze *all* fares, only all TfL fares.

In that case, his promise is a non-sequitur for many Londoners, as
anyone who can remember the "supplementary rates" debacle(s).

For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.

If you are referring to rail fares from Bromley, Bexley or Kingston on
Thames, then these are NR fares not TfL fares. Simple fact.

But money raised from the residents of areas so served is just as
hard-earned as that raised from Dulwich or Cockfosters.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 18:19:23 +0100, Mizter T
wrote:


On 12/06/2016 17:48, JNugent wrote:

On 10/06/2016 22:42, Recliner wrote:
[...]
For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

True, though he does correctly say, "Sadiq Khan has a clear and costed
plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next four years, so you will
not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016."

He certainly doesn't say he will freeze *all* fares, only all TfL fares.

In that case, his promise is a non-sequitur for many Londoners, as
anyone who can remember the "supplementary rates" debacle(s).

For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.

If you are referring to rail fares from Bromley, Bexley or Kingston on
Thames, then these are NR fares not TfL fares. Simple fact.

Mizter T! Although absolutely factual (as usual) I think you miss the
suffering caused to us, the citizens of the RBK.

We have to put up with the train + "tube" fare scale, which already
puts us at a disadvantage, and many like me will be using a period
Travelcard. The latter at least is a joint product so our new mayor
is being a little devious when he says what he is (not) doing to TfL
fares. Still, at least the racist didn't get in.

Richard.