In message , at 19:28:45
on Mon, 18 Jul 2016, remarked:
Are you sure about that? I though any diesel sold in 2006 or later
would have a sufficiently clean engine.

He's right - they are going for the *next* Euro standard for diesels -
you can't even buy one yet, or if you can they've only been out for a
year or so.

Mine is Euro 4 (2005 on), and I thought they wanted to discourage
anything that wasn't at least Euro 5 (2009 onwards).

The goalposts have moved to Euro 6? (2014 on).

Maybe not those goalposts. No diesel cars supposedly meeting those Euro
standards actually do so on the road as has been made clear by
Volkswagen.

Sure about that? The VW scandal only involves those cars where they
refrained from fitting the Ad-Blu equipment (to save money and boot
space). There are plenty of cars which do have that equipment fitted,
including the subsequent model of my car since 2009 (to meet Euro 5).

Measurements of actual pollution from Euro 4 and later vehicles

Euro 4's time is coming up, but I'd be somewhat miffed if a Euro 5 with
ad-blu ended up being restricted in London.

in Cambridge rather undermined the City Council's plans to clean up the
city centre where pollution levels are illegally high.

I've never really understood that, due to the restrictions on cars
getting into the city centre at all. Is it mainly caused by the buses?

We were doing so well too, before reality intruded. :-(


--
Roland Perry

On 2016-07-19 08:36:35 +0000, Roland Perry said:

Euro 4's time is coming up, but I'd be somewhat miffed if a Euro 5 with
ad-blu ended up being restricted in London.

Most Euro 5 engines don't use AdBlue, they just use a particulate
filter. It's more of a Euro 6 thing.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On 2016-07-19 00:11:55 +0000, said:

It takes me about 5 minutes to cycle to one of my 3 nearest supermarkets
and never more than an hour to do the family shopping even when I cycle
further as I did today.

If you are cycling to a supermarket (rather than driving, or bus
there and taxi back) you are going to be doing a rather smaller shop
than a typical weekly family shop. Again you are an exception. And
again most people (other than possibly in London) do not live within
5 minutes' cycle ride of the nearest full-size supermarket.

You are making rash assumptions about the amount of shopping I carry on my
bike!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
19:28:45 on Mon, 18 Jul 2016, remarked:
Are you sure about that? I though any diesel sold in 2006 or
later would have a sufficiently clean engine.

He's right - they are going for the *next* Euro standard for
diesels - you can't even buy one yet, or if you can they've only
been out for a year or so.

Mine is Euro 4 (2005 on), and I thought they wanted to discourage
anything that wasn't at least Euro 5 (2009 onwards).

The goalposts have moved to Euro 6? (2014 on).

Maybe not those goalposts. No diesel cars supposedly meeting those
Euro standards actually do so on the road as has been made clear by
Volkswagen.

Sure about that? The VW scandal only involves those cars where they
refrained from fitting the Ad-Blu equipment (to save money and boot
space). There are plenty of cars which do have that equipment fitted,
including the subsequent model of my car since 2009 (to meet Euro 5).

Measurements of actual pollution from Euro 4 and later vehicles

Euro 4's time is coming up, but I'd be somewhat miffed if a Euro 5
with ad-blu ended up being restricted in London.

Euro 4 was supposed to be twice as good for NOx as Euro 3. It turns out in
reality that it isn't.

in Cambridge rather undermined the City Council's plans to clean up the
city centre where pollution levels are illegally high.

I've never really understood that, due to the restrictions on cars
getting into the city centre at all. Is it mainly caused by the buses?

and taxis/hire cars.

We were doing so well too, before reality intruded. :-(

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 2016-07-19 12:19:24 +0000, said:

You are making rash assumptions about the amount of shopping I carry on my
bike!

Do you have a large luggage trailer? If so, you are *even more* of an
exception.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message , at 07:19:24
on Tue, 19 Jul 2016, remarked:
Euro 4's time is coming up, but I'd be somewhat miffed if a Euro 5
with ad-blu ended up being restricted in London.

Euro 4 was supposed to be twice as good for NOx as Euro 3. It turns out in
reality that it isn't.

But I'm discussing Euro 5.

in Cambridge rather undermined the City Council's plans to clean up the
city centre where pollution levels are illegally high.

I've never really understood that, due to the restrictions on cars
getting into the city centre at all. Is it mainly caused by the buses?

and taxis/hire cars.

Can't the council insist they are all at least Euro 5?
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On 2016-07-19 12:19:24 +0000, said:

You are making rash assumptions about the amount of shopping I carry on
my bike!

Do you have a large luggage trailer? If so, you are *even more* of
an exception.

No, just baskets, bags and handlebars sufficient to carry £50 pounds' worth
home on Sunday.

My experience over many years is that Usenet posters are not typical
shoppers.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
07:19:24 on Tue, 19 Jul 2016, remarked:
Euro 4's time is coming up, but I'd be somewhat miffed if a Euro 5
with ad-blu ended up being restricted in London.

Euro 4 was supposed to be twice as good for NOx as Euro 3. It turns out
in reality that it isn't.

But I'm discussing Euro 5.

Same problem though the relative NOx improvement of 4 over 5 is smaller.

in Cambridge rather undermined the City Council's plans to clean up
the city centre where pollution levels are illegally high.

I've never really understood that, due to the restrictions on cars
getting into the city centre at all. Is it mainly caused by the buses?

and taxis/hire cars.

Can't the council insist they are all at least Euro 5?

All in good time given that there are maximum ages of vehicles but by now
they should be insisting on Euro 6 or even limit to pure electrics or
hybrids, for new saloons at least. I'm out of the loop now so don't know
where they've got to.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 19:05:58
on Tue, 19 Jul 2016, remarked:
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
07:19:24 on Tue, 19 Jul 2016, remarked:
Euro 4's time is coming up, but I'd be somewhat miffed if a Euro 5
with ad-blu ended up being restricted in London.

Euro 4 was supposed to be twice as good for NOx as Euro 3. It turns out
in reality that it isn't.

But I'm discussing Euro 5.

Same problem though the relative NOx improvement of 4 over 5 is smaller.

The various NOx limits a

Euro 3 Jan 2000 500
Euro 4 Jan 2005 250
Euro 5 Sept 2009 180
Euro 6 Sept 2014 80

Thus Euro 4 was fairly short lived.

Most of the VWs implicated in the recent scandal were tested during the
Euro 5 time window (all the way back to 2009), and my understanding is
the most pressing trigger for the recent testing issue was the USA
moving from a "fleet average" emissions target during their equivalent
of the Euro 5 equivalent epoch to an "every model you make must pass" in
their Euro 6 equivalent epoch - while also trying to avoid the cost of
deploying AdBlue across the whole range.

in Cambridge rather undermined the City Council's plans to clean up
the city centre where pollution levels are illegally high.

I've never really understood that, due to the restrictions on cars
getting into the city centre at all. Is it mainly caused by the buses?

and taxis/hire cars.

Can't the council insist they are all at least Euro 5?

All in good time given that there are maximum ages of vehicles but by now
they should be insisting on Euro 6 or even limit to pure electrics or
hybrids, for new saloons at least.

Would a pure electric taxi/private hire car be able to do the Heathrow
or Gatwick run on one charge?

I'm out of the loop now so don't know where they've got to.


--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
19:05:58 on Tue, 19 Jul 2016, remarked:
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
07:19:24 on Tue, 19 Jul 2016, remarked:
Euro 4's time is coming up, but I'd be somewhat miffed if a Euro 5
with ad-blu ended up being restricted in London.

Euro 4 was supposed to be twice as good for NOx as Euro 3. It turns
out in reality that it isn't.

But I'm discussing Euro 5.

Same problem though the relative NOx improvement of 4 over 5 is smaller.

The various NOx limits a

Euro 3 Jan 2000 500
Euro 4 Jan 2005 250
Euro 5 Sept 2009 180
Euro 6 Sept 2014 80

Thus Euro 4 was fairly short lived.

Most of the VWs implicated in the recent scandal were tested during
the Euro 5 time window (all the way back to 2009), and my
understanding is the most pressing trigger for the recent testing
issue was the USA moving from a "fleet average" emissions target
during their equivalent of the Euro 5 equivalent epoch to an "every
model you make must pass" in their Euro 6 equivalent epoch - while
also trying to avoid the cost of deploying AdBlue across the whole
range.

The point was that on the road surveys in central Cambridge demonstrated
much higher emissions levels with Euro 4 barely better than Euro 3 instead
of half the level.

in Cambridge rather undermined the City Council's plans to clean
up the city centre where pollution levels are illegally high.

I've never really understood that, due to the restrictions on cars
getting into the city centre at all. Is it mainly caused by the
buses?

and taxis/hire cars.

Can't the council insist they are all at least Euro 5?

All in good time given that there are maximum ages of vehicles but by now
they should be insisting on Euro 6 or even limit to pure electrics or
hybrids, for new saloons at least.

Would a pure electric taxi/private hire car be able to do the
Heathrow or Gatwick run on one charge?

Dunno. Strictly speaking, City Council control of taxis doesn't extend
beyond the city boundary. I read that the present approach is to encourage
adoption of some electric vehicles in what will always be a mixed fleet.

All the time I was involved we wanted the County Council to use the city
centre bollards to limit the numbers of polluting vehicles. Despite their
responsibilities under the legislation they failed to act.

I'm out of the loop now so don't know where they've got to.

--
Colin Rosenstiel