I had the distinct ... erm ... pleasure of riding on Roastmaster (a.k.a.
Borisbus) the other day.

I am neither a designer nor an automotive engineer, but I think that it
is safe to say that this is a poorly designed vehicle pretty much by
anybody's standards and that this is also what happens when you push
through a vanity project. Where was the oversight committee on this?

I was on one bus that had openable windows on its upper deck, though I
still felt extremely nauseous. I did this after the heatwave and I don't
easily get motion sickness, thus making me wonder if there are issues
with exhaust venting.

The seats were extremely narrow and uncomfortable; While it would
probably benefit me to lose a couple of kilos, as with many people, I am
not grossly overweight.

The promised A/C doesn't work, and fare evasion can be rife. Indeed, I
thought that one of the many reasons for being rid of Bendis was to
combat fare evasion.

I also understand that the cost of these busses came in well above what
something like a Volvo would cost.

IMHO, this has to be one of the worst passenger vehicles plying London's
roads these days, making the bendibus look good in comparison.

The design that they have now should have either gone through several
additional iterations, been a mock up as part of an exhibition called
"Transport of the Future" in some place like London's Design Museum or
simply remained a concept drawing as part of a design studio's PR action.

In any event, the fiasco that is the current Roastmaster has likely
killed off any prospect of getting a new Routemaster on London's road
any time in the foreseeable future.

On 18/09/2016 15:16, wrote:
I had the distinct ... erm ... pleasure of riding on Roastmaster (a.k.a.
Borisbus) the other day.

I am neither a designer nor an automotive engineer, but I think that it is
safe to say that this is a poorly designed vehicle pretty much by
anybody's standards and that this is also what happens when you push
through a vanity project. Where was the oversight committee on this?

I was on one bus that had openable windows on its upper deck, though I
still felt extremely nauseous. I did this after the heatwave and I don't
easily get motion sickness, thus making me wonder if there are issues with
exhaust venting.

The seats were extremely narrow and uncomfortable; While it would probably
benefit me to lose a couple of kilos, as with many people, I am not
grossly overweight.

The promised A/C doesn't work, and fare evasion can be rife. Indeed, I
thought that one of the many reasons for being rid of Bendis was to combat
fare evasion.

I also understand that the cost of these busses came in well above what
something like a Volvo would cost.

IMHO, this has to be one of the worst passenger vehicles plying London's
roads these days, making the bendibus look good in comparison.

The design that they have now should have either gone through several
additional iterations, been a mock up as part of an exhibition called
"Transport of the Future" in some place like London's Design Museum or
simply remained a concept drawing as part of a design studio's PR action.

In any event, the fiasco that is the current Roastmaster has likely killed
off any prospect of getting a new Routemaster on London's road any time in
the foreseeable future.

Although I have been only a handful of times on a Borisbus, I too rate the
design of the passenger cabins as poor. On the lower deck, I dislike all
those backward-facing seats, and the upper deck I find claustrophobic
owing to the low roof. I have become accustomed to the much roomier and
bigger-windowed double-deckers used elsewhere, e.g., on route 263.

And yes, I agree, the seats are uncomfortable.

Patruus

On 2016-09-18 14:16:41 +0000, said:

I had the distinct ... erm ... pleasure of riding on Roastmaster
(a.k.a. Borisbus) the other day.

I am neither a designer nor an automotive engineer, but I think that it
is safe to say that this is a poorly designed vehicle pretty much by
anybody's standards and that this is also what happens when you push
through a vanity project. Where was the oversight committee on this?

I find them quiet and comfortable and haven't been on one where it was
too hot. They really aren't that bad.

fare evasion can be rife.

I always pay my fare of course. I can't see how you can eliminate
evasion easily on these buses or the DLR.

On 2016-09-18 19:45:54 +0000, eastender said:

I find them quiet and comfortable and haven't been on one where it was
too hot. They really aren't that bad.

Agreed. I have no problem with them now the windows have been fitted
(nice big sliding ones, too, not poxy little hopper ventilators) to
solve the aircon issue.

I always pay my fare of course. I can't see how you can eliminate
evasion easily on these buses or the DLR.

Once it is legal to have remotely monitored barriers at completely
unstaffed stations the DLR can be barriered and I am sure it will be.
It is nothing more than an automated light rail version of the Tube.

As for these buses, once they give up on conductors they can easily be
reverted to the standard "on at the front, off at the back" approach.
Mark the staircases as one way to make it work even better.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 18/09/2016 21:44, Neil Williams wrote:

On 2016-09-18 19:45:54 +0000, eastender said:

I find them quiet and comfortable and haven't been on one where it was
too hot. They really aren't that bad.

Agreed. I have no problem with them now the windows have been fitted
(nice big sliding ones, too, not poxy little hopper ventilators) to
solve the aircon issue.

It helps, yes, but it does not solve the issue. I dare say you have not
been on them in the hot weather over the summer. They are hotter than
other buses, even with the retro-fitted windows, no doubt.


I always pay my fare of course. I can't see how you can eliminate
evasion easily on these buses or the DLR.

Once it is legal to have remotely monitored barriers at completely
unstaffed stations the DLR can be barriered and I am sure it will be.
It is nothing more than an automated light rail version of the Tube.

As for these buses, once they give up on conductors they can easily be
reverted to the standard "on at the front, off at the back" approach.
Mark the staircases as one way to make it work even better.

Er, they have given up on conductors, and many routes that have had 'New
Routemasters' introduced on them never had conductors whatsoever. Plus
of course the conductors never checked the tickets, they were basically
just there to guard the open rear platform.

Boris made a big thing of saying 'Londoners want hop-on-hop-off open
platform buses, and that is what they shall have'... but that's not what
many people on NBfL routes ever got. But then again it was something
Boris said, so doesn't mean anything.

Neil Williams wrote on 18 Sep 2016 at
21:44 ...
On 2016-09-18 19:45:54 +0000, eastender said:

I find them quiet and comfortable and haven't been on one where it was
too hot. They really aren't that bad.

Agreed. I have no problem with them now the windows have been fitted
(nice big sliding ones, too, not poxy little hopper ventilators) to
solve the aircon issue.

Windows have not been fitted to any Roastmaster that I've used yet.
Another feature that annoys me is the rear door that hits passengers
waiting to get off as it opens. It ran over my foot the other day. It's
a terrible design.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

eastender writes:


I always pay my fare of course. I can't see how you can eliminate
evasion easily on these buses or the DLR.

Do not get rid of the conductors[1] and make it part of their duties to
observe that everyone boarding via the middle or rear door touches in
and the green light shows.

[1] I thought that they had already gone but when I was in London at the
end of last month, the only Boris Bus I travelled on had a conductor[2]
and the rear platform doors were open.

[2] I am assuming that the man, with a TfL logo on his shirt, standing
on the rear platform throughout my journey was the conductor.

Graham Murray wrote:
eastender writes:


I always pay my fare of course. I can't see how you can eliminate
evasion easily on these buses or the DLR.

Do not get rid of the conductors[1] and make it part of their duties to
observe that everyone boarding via the middle or rear door touches in
and the green light shows.

[1] I thought that they had already gone but when I was in London at the
end of last month, the only Boris Bus I travelled on had a conductor[2]
and the rear platform doors were open.

[2] I am assuming that the man, with a TfL logo on his shirt, standing
on the rear platform throughout my journey was the conductor.

They are not conductors, of course. They're 'platform attendants'. Their
sole job is to try and persuade passenger not to jump off moving buses, or
ones stopped in the middle of traffic. Perhaps their presence persuaded
more people to touch in, but that wasn't their role, and no-one supervised
the middle doors.

On 18/09/2016 21:54, Richard J. wrote:

Neil Williams wrote on 18 Sep 2016 at
21:44 ...
On 2016-09-18 19:45:54 +0000, eastender said:

I find them quiet and comfortable and haven't been on one where it was
too hot. They really aren't that bad.

Agreed. I have no problem with them now the windows have been fitted
(nice big sliding ones, too, not poxy little hopper ventilators) to
solve the aircon issue.

Windows have not been fitted to any Roastmaster that I've used yet.
Another feature that annoys me is the rear door that hits passengers
waiting to get off as it opens. It ran over my foot the other day. It's
a terrible design.


The windows started to appear this summer, I think I first saw them in
July. They are a long way from being a universal fitting so far.

I've been intending to post about this 'innovation' but afraid I never
got round to it :-(


The newest Roastmaster buses have a sliding rear door - i.e. one that
cannot function as an open platform.

On 18/09/2016 21:58, Graham Murray wrote:

eastender writes:

I always pay my fare of course. I can't see how you can eliminate
evasion easily on these buses or the DLR.

Do not get rid of the conductors[1] and make it part of their duties to
observe that everyone boarding via the middle or rear door touches in
and the green light shows.

Bit difficult to do with a paper ticket!

(I recall a bendy bus driver deciding he didn't like the look of someone
who had got on at the middle door and hadn't touched in. He said
something over the PA, and the slightly befuddled passenger walked up to
the front and showed the driver his paper Travelcard.)