In message , at 18:33:53
on Thu, 2 Feb 2017, remarked:

The point is that many of them say "it feels like we are in,

still get to pay, still get to follow orders from Brussels, still
have freedom of movement

Except on fishing.

You've spotted the tip of the iceberg which says "the single market,
doesn't, as many ill-informed observers think, cover everything".
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 19:48:47 on Thu, 2 Feb 2017,
tim... remarked:

For some people any deal at all that includes leaving the SM is a hard
Brexit

The two vital, and interlinked, aspects are leaving both the single
market and the free travel zone.

We aren't in the free travel zone.

sigh free movement zone.

Everything else is a sideshow.

[1] it needs to be comprehensive because (AIUI) WTO rules require that.

Such a vast over-simplification it beggars any response.

but the bit that you snipped did

tim

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 19:48:47 on Thu, 2 Feb 2017,
tim... remarked:

For some people any deal at all that includes leaving the SM is a hard
Brexit

The two vital, and interlinked, aspects are leaving both the single
market and the free travel zone.

We aren't in the free travel zone.

sigh free movement zone.

Everything else is a sideshow.

[1] it needs to be comprehensive because (AIUI) WTO rules require that.

Such a vast over-simplification it beggars any response.

And I should add

The reason why I pointed this out is that it precludes the limited agreement
that May wants.

That makes it even less likely to be achievable than even the most
optimistic think

tim

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 09:12:27 on Fri, 3 Feb 2017,
tim... remarked:

A bit silly to rely on polls when the overwhelming majority rejected any
exit which would make them poorer.

how do you know this?

I've never seen reports of a survey that asked

There's been a recent poll which indicates (iirc)

where?

that sufficient Brexiters to have swung the vote believed they wouldn't be
poorer, but that it's obvious they will be,

why it is obvious that THEY will be?

tim

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 18:33:53 on
Thu, 2 Feb 2017, remarked:

The point is that many of them say "it feels like we are in,

still get to pay, still get to follow orders from Brussels, still
have freedom of movement

Except on fishing.

You've spotted the tip of the iceberg which says "the single market,
doesn't, as many ill-informed observers think, cover everything".

except it's not the tip

it's the only thing

tim

In message , at 10:56:07 on Fri, 3 Feb 2017,
tim... remarked:

Everything else is a sideshow.

[snip lots of other stuff that's such a vast over-simplification it
beggars any response.]

[1] it needs to be comprehensive because (AIUI) WTO rules require that.

Such a vast over-simplification it beggars any response.

but the bit that you snipped did

Happy?
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:56:07 on Fri, 3 Feb 2017,
tim... remarked:

Everything else is a sideshow.

[snip lots of other stuff that's such a vast over-simplification it
beggars any response.]

[1] it needs to be comprehensive because (AIUI) WTO rules require that.

Such a vast over-simplification it beggars any response.

but the bit that you snipped did

Happy?

well no, because I don't agree with you

I made a substantive point that membership of the Customs Union was not a
side show

you can't sweep that way by snipping it and saying

"it's such vast over-simplification it beggars any response"

you started the vast simplification with "everything else"

quite how my taking a specific item from that set can be an even vaster
simplification I have no idea

I think you are unwilling to engage because you simply don't understand what
being a member of the CU brings us (which ISTM just proved my other point
that few people understand its significance)

ISTM that it is the SM that gives us very little, all of the Trade benefits
of the EU come from the CU (with of course the negative effect of not
letting us make other trade deals).

tim

In message , at 11:47:13 on Fri, 3 Feb 2017,
tim... remarked:
A bit silly to rely on polls when the overwhelming majority rejected any
exit which would make them poorer.

how do you know this?

I've never seen reports of a survey that asked

There's been a recent poll which indicates (iirc)

where?

Don't remember.

that sufficient Brexiters to have swung the vote believed they
wouldn't be poorer, but that it's obvious they will be,

why it is obvious that THEY will be?

Exchange rates, loss of EU grants, trade barriers, the list is endless.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 11:47:39 on Fri, 3 Feb 2017,
tim... remarked:

The point is that many of them say "it feels like we are in,

still get to pay, still get to follow orders from Brussels, still
have freedom of movement

Except on fishing.

You've spotted the tip of the iceberg which says "the single market,
doesn't, as many ill-informed observers think, cover everything".

except it's not the tip

it's the only thing

You've been fooled. The reason [only] fishing has been mentioned in this
context is because Norway has well known tariffs imposed on its fish,
despite its deal with the EU.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 12:06:44 on Fri, 3 Feb 2017,
tim... remarked:

I think you are unwilling to engage because you simply don't understand
what being a member of the CU brings us (which ISTM just proved my
other point that few people understand its significance)

I'm unwilling to engage, because I'm sick of talking to brick walls.
--
Roland Perry