In message , at 14:52:24
on Wed, 1 Feb 2017, remarked:
Membership of EFTA requires remaining in the SM with FoM

So not really a Brexit at all.

Not what Norway think.

http://openeurope.org.uk/intelligence/immigration-and-justice/norway-and-switzerland/

An anti-EU group, I see. Norway and Switzerland are in the Schengen zone
which is not part of this discussion.

Why would we be different?

If we were the same, it wouldn't be a Brexit in any sense that was
campaigned for.

Not a universal view, especially as expressed before 23rd June 2016.

I'm fed up with arguing what people did or didn't vote for when there
are polls which show conclusively that the "leave" people wanted a hard
Brexit by a country mile (an order of magnitude more than the winning
vote margin) and also closer examination shows the various
"Norway/Singapore" soft Brexits were never a realistic proposition.
--
Roland Perry

On 2017-02-02 09:06:33 +0000, Roland Perry said:

I'm fed up with arguing what people did or didn't vote for when there
are polls which show conclusively that the "leave" people wanted a hard
Brexit by a country mile (an order of magnitude more than the winning
vote margin) and also closer examination shows the various
"Norway/Singapore" soft Brexits were never a realistic proposition.

It would only take 4.0000000000001% of the total vote who voted Leave
not to want that and what you say would be factually false.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message , at 09:36:44 on Thu, 2 Feb
2017, Neil Williams remarked:

I'm fed up with arguing what people did or didn't vote for when there
are polls which show conclusively that the "leave" people wanted a
hard Brexit by a country mile (an order of magnitude more than the
winning vote margin) and also closer examination shows the various
"Norway/Singapore" soft Brexits were never a realistic proposition.

It would only take 4.0000000000001% of the total vote who voted Leave
not to want that

Not to want what?

and what you say would be factually false.

Percentages of the order of 40% of the leave voters put as their top
reason a factor which would inevitably result in a hard break.
--
Roland Perry

On 2017-02-02 09:54:57 +0000, Roland Perry said:

In message , at 09:36:44 on Thu, 2
Feb 2017, Neil Williams remarked:

I'm fed up with arguing what people did or didn't vote for when there
are polls which show conclusively that the "leave" people wanted a hard
Brexit by a country mile (an order of magnitude more than the winning
vote margin) and also closer examination shows the various
"Norway/Singapore" soft Brexits were never a realistic proposition.

It would only take 4.0000000000001% of the total vote who voted Leave
not to want that

Not to want what?

Hard Brexit.

and what you say would be factually false.

Percentages of the order of 40% of the leave voters put as their top
reason a factor which would inevitably result in a hard break.

40% of the leave voters = approximately 20% of the vote. Not much of a
mandate, is it?

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

"Clank" wrote in message
news
On 01.02.2017 9:19 PM, tim... wrote:


"Clank" wrote in message
news
On 01.02.2017 9:00 PM, tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 16:35:18 on Wed, 1 Feb
2017, tim... remarked:
I have heard on the radio more than once that legally we could
remain
inside the EFTA but still leave the EU since the former was a
seperate
agreement.

EFTA is Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland. Down in the
noise level.

Membership of EFTA requires remaining in the SM with FoM

So not really a Brexit at all.

well no

You know you don't have to tell me that ;-)


with Liechtenstein, (presumably due to it insignificant size) having
an exemption


And most informed opinion says Norway would veto us joining.

Why?

It doesn't do anything as "a block" that our size would dominate

Allegedly Norway thinks we would (dominate).

If we only get one vote, how?

That we export 10 times more to the rest of the world then they do may
affect them adversely, is irrelevant

We are going to be exporting 10 times more whether we are in their
little club or not

And that attitude is exactly why they wouldn't want the UK in their
"little

I think you completely misunderstood my meaning of "we are going to be"

It's not a threat

It is as it is

Or do you expect us to stop making Jaguar cars, RR engines and wings for
Airbus planes, just to please you?

Of those three, only one is controlled by a UK company. Which is a
basketcase in need of turnaround, oddly enough.

I suspect threatening Norway with "but who's going to sell you Jaguars,
eh?"

Look, it's not a threat

Norway has 5 million people

we have 60 million.

That we export 10 times as much to the REST OF THE WORLD than they do, is a
given.

It is not something that we use as a threat to get greater control over how
this little club negotiates it rules because it doesn't actually have common
rules about trade with the ROW (members of EFTA are free to negotiate their
own external trade deals)

If you thought that I was saying that "we export more to them than they
export to us", I WAS NOT!!!!!

tim

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
news
In message , at 14:52:24 on
Wed, 1 Feb 2017, remarked:
Membership of EFTA requires remaining in the SM with FoM

So not really a Brexit at all.

Not what Norway think.

http://openeurope.org.uk/intelligence/immigration-and-justice/norway-and-switzerland/

An anti-EU group, I see. Norway and Switzerland are in the Schengen zone
which is not part of this discussion.

Why would we be different?

If we were the same, it wouldn't be a Brexit in any sense that was
campaigned for.

Not a universal view, especially as expressed before 23rd June 2016.

I'm fed up with arguing what people did or didn't vote for when there are
polls which show conclusively that the "leave" people wanted a hard Brexit
by a country mile (an order of magnitude more than the winning vote
margin) and also closer examination shows the various "Norway/Singapore"
soft Brexits were never a realistic proposition.

much respect for you for taking that position

unfortunately, the majority of Remainers don't accept it and many of them
are vocal at denying it.

tim

wrote in message
...
In article , (tim...)
wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

Membership of EFTA requires remaining in the SM with FoM

So not really a Brexit at all.

Not what Norway think.

that's not what I read

All the negatives of being in, but none of the positives

sorry, can't find a link

I didn't say they liked it, just that they know they are NOT in the EU.

Only in the box ticking sense on not being in

The point is that many of them say "it feels like we are in, but don't get
Vote"

tim

In message , at 10:46:41 on Thu, 2 Feb
2017, Neil Williams remarked:
I'm fed up with arguing what people did or didn't vote for when
there are polls which show conclusively that the "leave" people
wanted a hard Brexit by a country mile (an order of magnitude more
than the winning vote margin) and also closer examination shows
the various "Norway/Singapore" soft Brexits were never a realistic proposition.
It would only take 4.0000000000001% of the total vote who voted
Leave not to want that
Not to want what?

Hard Brexit.

But they were falsely persuaded that a "soft Brexit" was even a vague
possibility.

and what you say would be factually false.
Percentages of the order of 40% of the leave voters put as their top
reason a factor which would inevitably result in a hard break.

40% of the leave voters = approximately 20% of the vote. Not much of a
mandate, is it?

We are probably at cross purposes here. All that was required was for 2%
of those voting to realise a soft Brexit was impossible, and thus
Remaining was for them preferable to a hard Brexit.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 12:29:27 on Thu, 2 Feb 2017,
tim... remarked:
Membership of EFTA requires remaining in the SM with FoM

So not really a Brexit at all.

Not what Norway think.

that's not what I read

All the negatives of being in, but none of the positives

sorry, can't find a link

I didn't say they liked it, just that they know they are NOT in the EU.

Only in the box ticking sense on not being in

The point is that many of them say "it feels like we are in,

still get to pay, still get to follow orders from Brussels, still have
freedom of movement

but don't get Vote"

--
Roland Perry

On 2017-02-02 12:38:07 +0000, Roland Perry said:

But they were falsely persuaded that a "soft Brexit" was even a vague
possibility.

It was and still is. Not likely, but possible.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.