On 22/01/2017 13:33, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 11:30:53 on Sun, 22 Jan 2017, Recliner
remarked:
The ePassport queues have got worse and worse, as more people have got
chipped passports and have learned how to use the gates. At one
time, the
majority preferred the manual queue, but as fewer desks are now manned,
most EU citizens now use the gates.

Only two more years to go.

Really? EU citizens are very likely to continue using the ePassport
gates
post-Brexit. After all, visa-free movement is likely to continue; what's
likely to be restricted is employment (ie, getting an NI number) and
access
to benefits.

That's going to stop people working illegally, not.

Even now, many non-EU citizens can use them:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPas...es#Eligibility

At present, British citizens, European Economic Area citizens and
citizens
of Australia, Canada, Hong Kong, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, South
Korea, Taiwan and the United States who are enrolled in the Registered
Traveller Service,[1] can use ePassport gates, provided that they are
aged
either 18 and over or 12 and over travelling with an adult and holding
valid biometric passports.

I'm genuinely surprised by that. I have an Australian ex-colleague who
often complains about being grilled by UK Immigration about why they are
such a frequent visitor here.

[The reason being, they are in effect in transit to several different EU
countries, but like to break the trip for a few days in London].

I should see if they are eligible to use the ePassport gates.

They would not be as, IIRC, e-gates are only available to EEA citizens,
besides just UK.

wrote:
On 22/01/2017 10:22, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2017-01-22 09:27:36 +0000, Recliner said:

I thought that IRIS was discontinued years ago (have you not flown in the
last few years)? So you'll now be in the same long queue as everyone
else. That can easily delay you by 20 minutes.

Correct, it was replaced by the e-gates.

Neil

They had e-gates at Copenhagen some years before LHR, BTW. It was in
2007, IIRC.

Heathrow's had them since 2009. But the early ones were slow and quirky;
the third generation ones are much faster and more reliable.

wrote:
On 22/01/2017 13:33, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 11:30:53 on Sun, 22 Jan 2017, Recliner
remarked:
The ePassport queues have got worse and worse, as more people have got
chipped passports and have learned how to use the gates. At one
time, the
majority preferred the manual queue, but as fewer desks are now manned,
most EU citizens now use the gates.

Only two more years to go.

Really? EU citizens are very likely to continue using the ePassport
gates
post-Brexit. After all, visa-free movement is likely to continue; what's
likely to be restricted is employment (ie, getting an NI number) and
access
to benefits.

That's going to stop people working illegally, not.

Even now, many non-EU citizens can use them:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPas...es#Eligibility

At present, British citizens, European Economic Area citizens and
citizens
of Australia, Canada, Hong Kong, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, South
Korea, Taiwan and the United States who are enrolled in the Registered
Traveller Service,[1] can use ePassport gates, provided that they are
aged
either 18 and over or 12 and over travelling with an adult and holding
valid biometric passports.

I'm genuinely surprised by that. I have an Australian ex-colleague who
often complains about being grilled by UK Immigration about why they are
such a frequent visitor here.

[The reason being, they are in effect in transit to several different EU
countries, but like to break the trip for a few days in London].

I should see if they are eligible to use the ePassport gates.

They would not be as, IIRC, e-gates are only available to EEA citizens,
besides just UK.

Read the post he was replying to: the gates can also be used by citizens of
Australia, Canada, Hong Kong, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea,
Taiwan and the United States who join the Registered Traveller Service.

On 2017-01-22 15:28:30 +0000, Roland Perry said:

In message , at 14:37:18 on Sun, 22
Jan 2017, Neil Williams remarked:

Within 10 years I think the UK will consist of England and Wales. And
only Wales because on its own it'd be like Albania; it depends too much
on England's economy.

Albania once depended on England's economy?

You know what I meant.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 2017-01-22 16:01:26 +0000, Roland Perry said:

Without some bureaucracy, how do you tell the purpose of the visit?

Like Switzerland, which is in Schengen but does not allow freedom of
work without a work permit (though these are available in large numbers
to EU people), you control the work, not the entry.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 15:40:51 on Sun, 22 Jan 2017, Recliner
remarked:
I think they have to join the Registered Traveller Service to do so.

And I'd expect EEA citizens to get bumped into the second group
post-Brexit.

The question is whether they'll have to formally register, or if they'll be
automatically regarded as such. No doubt it will be the same as we get in
the EU.

My guess is that for non-working visits, no registration would be
necessary, as the numbers would overwhelm the bureaucracy. After all,
no-one wants to impede toursm, or educational visits.

Without some bureaucracy, how do you tell the purpose of the visit?

Maybe some kind of 'Visa waiver' scheme?

Most EU citizens won't want to come to work illegally, as they wouldn't
be entitled to any benefits, or healthcare.

Neither of those appear to stop the USA putting tourists and people on
educational visits through quite a bit of bureaucracy.

I think there's a *lot* more travel between the UK and the rest of Europe.
And as there will be a soft intra-Ireland border, and an open Ulster-GB
border, there would be little point in inventing a new bureaucratic
obstacle to travel to/from Europe. The airports simply wouldn't have the
space for the gigantic Immigration areas that would be needed, nor would
there be the staff available.

On 2017-01-22 16:49:13 +0000, Recliner said:

I think there's a *lot* more travel between the UK and the rest of Europe.
And as there will be a soft intra-Ireland border, and an open Ulster-GB
border, there would be little point in inventing a new bureaucratic
obstacle to travel to/from Europe. The airports simply wouldn't have the
space for the gigantic Immigration areas that would be needed, nor would
there be the staff available.

Depends how it works. Something like ESTA which would be
pre-registered and recognised electronically on entry wouldn't require
substantial extra space if any.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Neil Williams wrote:
On 2017-01-22 16:49:13 +0000, Recliner said:

I think there's a *lot* more travel between the UK and the rest of Europe.
And as there will be a soft intra-Ireland border, and an open Ulster-GB
border, there would be little point in inventing a new bureaucratic
obstacle to travel to/from Europe. The airports simply wouldn't have the
space for the gigantic Immigration areas that would be needed, nor would
there be the staff available.

Depends how it works. Something like ESTA which would be
pre-registered and recognised electronically on entry wouldn't require
substantial extra space if any.

Not so much in the airport, because it's a way of registering to use the
gates, and there would still need to be lots of new manual desks for all
those who hadn't pre-registered.

But it would require a big bureaucracy to process all the applications.
And, of course, the EU would need an equivalent bureaucracy to process UK
applications. It all seems rather pointless if nearly all applications
from EU citizens are likely to be automatically accepted by default.

On 2017-01-22 17:03:45 +0000, Recliner said:

Not so much in the airport, because it's a way of registering to use the
gates, and there would still need to be lots of new manual desks for all
those who hadn't pre-registered.

Assuming you accept anyone who hasn't pre-registered. The US doesn't.

But it would require a big bureaucracy to process all the applications.
And, of course, the EU would need an equivalent bureaucracy to process UK
applications. It all seems rather pointless if nearly all applications
from EU citizens are likely to be automatically accepted by default.

True.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Neil Williams wrote:
On 2017-01-22 17:03:45 +0000, Recliner said:

Not so much in the airport, because it's a way of registering to use the
gates, and there would still need to be lots of new manual desks for all
those who hadn't pre-registered.

Assuming you accept anyone who hasn't pre-registered. The US doesn't.

The US ESTA is part of a Visa waiver scheme. I'm optimistic that we won't
need visas for casual travel within Europe. As we were never part of
Schengen, I'm hopeful that things won't change much.


But it would require a big bureaucracy to process all the applications.
And, of course, the EU would need an equivalent bureaucracy to process UK
applications. It all seems rather pointless if nearly all applications
from EU citizens are likely to be automatically accepted by default.

True.

Let's hope sense prevails!