In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Tuesday, 21 February 2017 19:07:06 UTC, Clank wrote:
On 21.02.2017 8:05 PM, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thursday, 9 February 2017 09:25:55 UTC, wrote:
Or did I get the wrong end of the stick? Some brand new 66 plate
single deckers have appeared on the W9 and they're plain old diesel.

Err new DD buses in *Central London* have to be hybrids. Single decks
have to zero emission in Zone 1. Some other routes further out have
gained them but there's no consistent approach. The new buses on the W9
are to euro6 standard so are low emission. The Mayor's policy re the
ULEZ means there will be more hybrid double deckers bought new with a
massive programme of retrofitting existing fleet vehicles to bring them
to either euro6 or euro6 equivalent. There are simply far too many
buses with at least 7-10 years service life left for them all to be
booted out of the fleet and replaced with new vehicles. There are also
two other huge issues - there needs to be an enormous increase in
electricity generation if London is to have a lot of electric buses
with overnight charging. There is also a development gap in the bus
market - there are very few viable hybrid single deck buses and even
fewer all electric or hydrogen buses. China seems to have a monopoly
on producing electric single deckers (see those on the 507/521) and I
don't think that's very healthy. There are some Optare electric buses
but their reliability seems dubious. Single deck hybrids have broadly
failed in London - several fleets have had short service lives and then
been scrapped prematurely. This poses a big problem for TfL hence the
current reliance on buying euro6 spec diesel single decks. It will be
interesting to see if the bus manufacturers can produce reliable and
affordable hybrid / electric single decks in the range of sizes that
London's network needs.

It remains a mystery to me why London spends a fortune on hybrid and
battery powered buses (complete with the inefficiency of adding a load
of weight in the form of decidedly environmentally unfriendly batteries
to every bus) to address a problem that in a sane nation would be solved
with trolleybuses.

Well yes but I suspect the prejudices of the Cities of London,
Westminster and Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea are as strong
now as they were back in the 30s. Can't wires fixed to our lovely
buildings - heaven forfend!

It was in the 1900s not the 1930s. They have a choice, wires or choke to
death. Simple

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 2017\02\22 00:36, wrote:

They have a choice, wires or choke to death. Simple

Wires look like crap. What's wrong with hydrogen buses?

On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 01:17:34 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\02\22 00:36, wrote:

They have a choice, wires or choke to death. Simple

Wires look like crap. What's wrong with hydrogen buses?

Supply and storage. Though there is one hydrogen bus route in london that
runs through southwark. Can't remember the number.

--
Spud

On 2017-02-22 09:48:49 +0000, d said:

Wires look like crap. What's wrong with hydrogen buses?

Supply and storage. Though there is one hydrogen bus route in london that
runs through southwark. Can't remember the number.

RV1, which has always been rather a test bed for TfL.

Wires don't necessarily "look like crap", in any case. Decorative
poles can be used to enhance the look.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On Wednesday, 22 February 2017 11:12:21 UTC, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2017-02-22 09:48:49 +0000, d said:

Wires look like crap. What's wrong with hydrogen buses?

Supply and storage. Though there is one hydrogen bus route in london that
runs through southwark. Can't remember the number.

RV1, which has always been rather a test bed for TfL.

Wires don't necessarily "look like crap", in any case. Decorative
poles can be used to enhance the look.

There was an RV1 broken down on the Aldwych this morning, completely blocking half of the road.

Central London is constantly dug up and rebuilt with many bus route diversions.
A trolleybus wouldn't be able to divert along an unwired road.

They're also a nuisance when the pickup arm gets disconnected from the wires.

On 2017\02\23 12:11, Mark wrote:

There was an RV1 broken down on the Aldwych this morning, completely blocking half of the road.

"Oh the humanity" ;-)

Central London is constantly dug up and rebuilt with many bus route diversions.
A trolleybus wouldn't be able to divert along an unwired road.

.... unless it had a back-up battery or small diesel tank allowing a mile
or two off the wires, which would also remove the need to put countless
wires and junctions in the garage that were only used once a day.

How's the battery bus with charging pad in Walthamstow getting on?

On 2017-02-23 12:11:31 +0000, Mark said:

Central London is constantly dug up and rebuilt with many bus route diversions.
A trolleybus wouldn't be able to divert along an unwired road.

Many of them have a small generator or battery for precisely that purpose.

They're also a nuisance when the pickup arm gets disconnected from the wires.

It's not hard to put it back on using the ropes at the back.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In article ,
() wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 13:31:55 +0000, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2017-02-23 12:11:31 +0000, Mark said:

Central London is constantly dug up and rebuilt with many bus route
diversions. A trolleybus wouldn't be able to divert along an unwired
road.

Many of them have a small generator or battery for precisely that
purpose.

Wasn't there one London garage that depended on the buses reaching a
wired street by using their battery along an unwired one?

First of all, London trolleybuses didn't use garages. They used depots. They
were treated as rail less trams rather than buses. I'm sure no depots lacked
wired access but I have a feeling

They're also a nuisance when the pickup arm gets disconnected from the
wires.

It's not hard to put it back on using the ropes at the back.

It is quite possible now to have automated systems that can position
the Trolleys onto the wires without a member of crew having to pull on
a rope or use a long insulated pole . That's provided that the
trolleys or the overhead hasn't been damaged due to the dewirement.
It would almost be a requirement now,when London had Trolleybuses last
time around they had conductors who could extract the bamboo pole from
underneath and rewire them. Even then they had problems with traffic
understandably pulling up close to the rear of the bus that did not
allow enough room for the bamboo to be withdrawn .Some systems carried
the pole on the side because of this.
In todays busy traffic having a driver leave his seat to wield a long
pole around or haul on a rope would soon have some impatient passenger
moaning like hell on twitter because he is late or a another road user
would get road rage and lump the driver one.

Which trolleybus systems have automated systems which restore booms after
dewirements? I've never heard of that and can't imagine how it might work
thinking of dewirements I observed in London and later in Brazil.

My recollections of the London system was that insulated poles were hung on
traction standards all over the network for use where dewirements (and
planned removals at lay-by points) were regular. They were much more often
used than those under the trolleybuses (I remember the holder tubes being
empty as often as not).

Ropes as used by trolley retrievers were very rare on British systems
, swinging ropes get easily caught on the top rear corners of a double
decker a problem that did affect the single deckers abroad who use the
rope system as std.

That would only be an issue if the booms were too short or positioned too
far forward on the roof.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Mark) wrote:

On Wednesday, 22 February 2017 11:12:21 UTC, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2017-02-22 09:48:49 +0000, d said:

Wires look like crap. What's wrong with hydrogen buses?

Supply and storage. Though there is one hydrogen bus route in london
that runs through southwark. Can't remember the number.

RV1, which has always been rather a test bed for TfL.

Wires don't necessarily "look like crap", in any case. Decorative
poles can be used to enhance the look.

There was an RV1 broken down on the Aldwych this morning, completely
blocking half of the road.

Central London is constantly dug up and rebuilt with many bus route
diversions. A trolleybus wouldn't be able to divert along an unwired road.

They're also a nuisance when the pickup arm gets disconnected from
the wires.

Traction batteries would cope diversions. My experience of dewirements was
that the booms were restored pretty quickly, especially given that London
trolleybuses never had trolley ropes.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Basil Jet)
wrote:

On 2017\02\22 00:36, wrote:

They have a choice, wires or choke to death. Simple

Wires look like crap. What's wrong with hydrogen buses?

What hydrogen buses?

--
Colin Rosenstiel