Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at Drayton?

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

I do not know. But this is one of those things where I immediately think, I've got to go and see it. I'VE GOT TO GO AND SEE IT!

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

In article , () wrote:

Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of
highbury station (and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate
line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from the ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is
left up at Drayton?

Whole platform length or just a short section?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Thu, 07 Dec 2017 15:31:05 -0600
wrote:
In article , () wrote:

Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of
highbury station (and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate
line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from the ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is
left up at Drayton?

Whole platform length or just a short section?

Seems to be the whole length.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On 07/12/2017 21:31, wrote:
In article , () wrote:

Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of
highbury station (and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate
line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from the ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is
left up at Drayton?

Whole platform length or just a short section?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...look_north.JPG
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On 08/12/17 10:48, Robin wrote:
On 07/12/2017 21:31, wrote:
In article , () wrote:

Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of
highbury station (and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate
line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from the ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is
left up at Drayton?

Whole platform length or just a short section?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...look_north.JPG


CBTC radio?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commun..._train_control

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...frequency.html

--
Adrian C

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 15:57:32 +0000
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 08/12/17 10:48, Robin wrote:
On 07/12/2017 21:31, wrote:
In article , () wrote:

Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of
highbury station (and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate
line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from the ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is
left up at Drayton?

Whole platform length or just a short section?


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...n_Great_Northe
n_southbound_look_north.JPG


CBTC radio?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commun..._train_control

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...eps-up-victori
-line-frequency.html

Only if they're using long wave! :)

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

In article , writes
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at Drayton?

I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.

--
Clive D.W. Feather

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , writes
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at Drayton?

I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.

That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On 18.12.17 10:10, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , writes
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at Drayton?

I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.

That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.

Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,
however, until the engineer sets the power mode switch to the proper
setting.

The engineer will normally set the mode switch to DC, which also drops
the pans, though I have at times seen them coast into 3rd rail with the
pans up, and then only switch the power made when the train is out of
the wire.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
" wrote:
On 18.12.17 10:10, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , writes
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?

I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.

That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.

Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,

Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
" wrote:
On 18.12.17 10:10, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , writes
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?

I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.

That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.

Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,

Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Guess what? Drivers of ATO trains get paid more, or at least they did when
it was first introduced.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:06:12 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
" wrote:
On 18.12.17 10:10, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , writes
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously
not
some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from
the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?

I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.

That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.

Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,

Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Guess what? Drivers of ATO trains get paid more, or at least they did when
it was first introduced.

That doesn't surprise me. Another please-don't-strike bribe no doubt.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On 18.12.17 16:01, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
" wrote:
On 18.12.17 10:10, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , writes
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?

I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.

That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.

Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,

Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.


Also don't have door overrides in case of an overshoot.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On 18/12/17 16:12, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:06:12 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
" wrote:
On 18.12.17 10:10, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , writes
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously
not
some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from
the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?

I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.

That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.

Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,

Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Guess what? Drivers of ATO trains get paid more, or at least they did when
it was first introduced.

That doesn't surprise me. Another please-don't-strike bribe no doubt.

You're not an MP are you? "Everyone gets a 0 or 1% pay rise except us."

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:08:38 +0000
Martin Coffee wrote:
On 18/12/17 16:12, wrote:
Guess what? Drivers of ATO trains get paid more, or at least they did when
it was first introduced.

That doesn't surprise me. Another please-don't-strike bribe no doubt.

You're not an MP are you? "Everyone gets a 0 or 1% pay rise except us."

Driving a train is a blue collar job. It probably requires less skill than
driving an HGV (which I have a license for invidentaly) or a bus. There's sod
all reason for them to be paid 50K+ for driving a vehicle that does everything
itself anyway except accelerate and brake even if not ATO.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

In article , () wrote:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:08:38 +0000
Martin Coffee wrote:
On 18/12/17 16:12, wrote:
Guess what? Drivers of ATO trains get paid more, or at least they did
when it was first introduced.

That doesn't surprise me. Another please-don't-strike bribe no doubt.

You're not an MP are you? "Everyone gets a 0 or 1% pay rise except us."

Driving a train is a blue collar job. It probably requires less skill than
driving an HGV (which I have a license for invidentaly) or a bus.
There's sod all reason for them to be paid 50K+ for driving a vehicle
that does everything
itself anyway except accelerate and brake even if not ATO.

Showing your usual deep ignorance I see.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

In article ,
writes
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

If it rises too high, it will drop automatically.

I don't think there's any stock where the automatic power control
magnets drop the pan - they just trip the main breaker instead.

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down.

What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

The train will not take power,
however, until the engineer sets the power mode switch to the proper
setting.

On 313s there's an alarm that goes off in the cab while the train is
drawing power from the supply that the AC/DC switch doesn't select. But
that's all.

--
Clive D.W. Feather

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

In article , (Clive D.W.
Feather) wrote:

In article ,
writes
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

If it rises too high, it will drop automatically.

I don't think there's any stock where the automatic power control
magnets drop the pan - they just trip the main breaker instead.

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down.

What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

The train will not take power,
however, until the engineer sets the power mode switch to the proper
setting.

On 313s there's an alarm that goes off in the cab while the train is
drawing power from the supply that the AC/DC switch doesn't select. But
that's all.

I certainly hope that such control and alarm technology has moved on
somewhat since the 313s were built over 40 years ago!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 09:47:38 -0600
wrote:
In article , () wrote:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:08:38 +0000
Martin Coffee wrote:
On 18/12/17 16:12, wrote:
Guess what? Drivers of ATO trains get paid more, or at least they did
when it was first introduced.

That doesn't surprise me. Another please-don't-strike bribe no doubt.

You're not an MP are you? "Everyone gets a 0 or 1% pay rise except us."

Driving a train is a blue collar job. It probably requires less skill than
driving an HGV (which I have a license for invidentaly) or a bus.
There's sod all reason for them to be paid 50K+ for driving a vehicle
that does everything
itself anyway except accelerate and brake even if not ATO.

Showing your usual deep ignorance I see.

Feel free to fill us in on all the arduous tasks a train driver has to
perform.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On 19.12.17 19:54, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,
writes
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

If it rises too high, it will drop automatically.

I don't think there's any stock where the automatic power control
magnets drop the pan - they just trip the main breaker instead.

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down.

What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.


Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

Why do these threads carry on for so long?

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

In article ,
writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

--
Clive D.W. Feather

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,
writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On 2017\12\20 18:16, Offramp wrote:
Why do these threads carry on for so long?

To stop the pan coming off the end?

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
" wrote:
On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,
writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.

So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all? Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail then hope the pan works because if
not then that'll be the whole line blocked with a dead train.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On 21.12.17 10:34, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
" wrote:
On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,
writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.

So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?

Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.

Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail

They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.

then hope the pan works because if
not then that'll be the whole line blocked with a dead train.

M2s and M8s are married pairs, coupled into a consist. Each of those
pairs has a pantograph, and they all go up. Thus, if one of them does
not work, the other ones will take over.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:33:34 +0000, "
wrote:

On 21.12.17 10:34, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
" wrote:
On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,
writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.

So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?

Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.

Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail

They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.

Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank). Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).

then hope the pan works because if
not then that'll be the whole line blocked with a dead train.

M2s and M8s are married pairs, coupled into a consist. Each of those
pairs has a pantograph, and they all go up. Thus, if one of them does
not work, the other ones will take over.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On 21.12.17 23:45, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:33:34 +0000, "
wrote:

On 21.12.17 10:34, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
" wrote:
On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,
writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.

So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?

Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.

Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail

They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.

Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank).

Yes, I have seen that plenty of times, such as at City Thameslink,
Farringdon and Drayton Park.

Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).

Class 373s also changed over on the fly when they ran out of Waterloo, IIRC.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On 21.12.17 23:45, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:33:34 +0000, "
wrote:

On 21.12.17 10:34, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
" wrote:
On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,
writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.

So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?

Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.

Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail

They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.

Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank). Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).

Changing over at V-Zero on an M-2 will mean a rough start, and is thus
ill-advised.

Are the M-2s still running, by the way? I know that the New Haven Line
EMUs are now mainly M-8, though I was under the impression that
Metro-North were keeping a few around for peak services.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On 22.12.17 0:33, wrote:
On 21.12.17 23:45, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:33:34 +0000, "
wrote:

On 21.12.17 10:34, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
" wrote:
On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,
writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up
while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans
will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the
latter
case, that there is a mode switch.

So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?

Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.

Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem,
unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail

They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.

Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank). Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).

Changing over at V-Zero on an M-2 will mean a rough start, and is thus
ill-advised.

Are the M-2s still running, by the way? I know that the New Haven Line
EMUs are now mainly M-8, though I was under the impression that
Metro-North were keeping a few around for peak services.

A few M-2s, that is.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

In article ,
(Charles Ellson) wrote:

Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank). Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).

Do 378s change on the move now? They used to stop north of Shepherd's Bush
to do so IIRC, an obvious case for changing on the move.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
" wrote:
On 18.12.17 10:10, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , writes
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?

I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.

That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.

Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,

Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

Scott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
" wrote:
On 18.12.17 10:10, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , writes
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?

I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.

That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.

Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,

Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Yes, very much so.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Recliner wrote:
Scott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Yes, very much so.

Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from striking.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Recliner wrote:
Scott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Yes, very much so.

Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from striking.

Militancy goes in and out of fashion. There was a time when ASLEF was
extremely militant, and the NUR much more moderate.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

I am nominating this as my THREAD OF THE YEAR!!

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Recliner wrote:
Scott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Yes, very much so.

Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from striking.

One of the first steps on the way to totalitarianism.

Militancy goes in and out of fashion. There was a time when ASLEF was
extremely militant, and the NUR much more moderate.

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Recliner wrote:
Scott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Yes, very much so.

Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from striking.

Militancy goes in and out of fashion. There was a time when ASLEF was
extremely militant, and the NUR much more moderate.

It depends a lot whose jobs are most under threat. In BR days, with a
shrinking network and declining service, drivers were losing jobs
proportionally faster than other roles on the railway.
Post-privatisation, with expanding use of the railways but a shift
towards driver-only operation, ASLEF is growing again but RMT
membership is in significant decline. Expect ASLEF to suddenly start
being militant again when automated trains reach the mainline.

Mark

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 

On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 19:44:04 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Recliner wrote:
Scott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done
automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO
anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Yes, very much so.

Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were
considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from
striking.

One of the first steps on the way to totalitarianism.

Keeping the country running is more important than your orwellian fantasies.
Perhaps you think the police should be free to strike?