On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 at 14:03:03, John Rowland
wrote:

"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
...

According to some sources, they can't do the "next train"
indicators that we have, as it's "too complex", which I think
is b*ll*cks, but there you are.....

Well, LUL can't do the next train indicators either, at least they can't do
them properly!

True, but at least they give you some idea!

But at least once you know where you are going, and
which train to take, you get a 24-hour service, on
admittedly less comfortable, but also less crowded trains.

You can't really complain about them being less comfortable and then praise
them for being less crowded, because the two go together. As soon as a
transport system starts using plastic seats, it is seen as a distress
purchase and is shunned by anyone who thinks they are above the hoi poloi,
solving any overcrowding problem within weeks.

Yeah, you have a point. But then, didn't the unlamented Mrs Thatcher
once say that nobody over 30 should be seen on a bus, or something?
Hmmm......
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 8 March 2004

In message , Annabel Smyth
writes
Yeah, you have a point. But then, didn't the unlamented Mrs Thatcher
once say that nobody over 30 should be seen on a bus, or something?
Hmmm......
My personal favourite was her reported reply, when advised about the
need for a Chelsea - Hackney tube line:

"Why would anyone from Chelsea want to go to Hackney?"
--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 at 14:03:03, John Rowland
wrote:
"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
...

According to some sources, they can't do the
"next train" indicators that we have, as it's "too
complex", which I think is b*ll*cks, but there you are.....

Well, LUL can't do the next train indicators either,
at least they can't do them properly!

True, but at least they give you some idea!

What I meant was that although they are very useful on the Victoria Line and
certain other lines, there are stations on the Circle Line where the nice
multiline LED displays only tell you about one train[1], and only when it is
practically in the station anyway. The Piccadilly Line displays are great at
telling you about the next three trains to Heathrow but neglecting to give
any clues about the next train to Rayners. It is almost as if the system was
bought off the shelf, having been originally designed for a network with
simpler lines (such as Tokyo or Paris Metro).

[1] That's one LU train, not one ONE train.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

(Gareth Davis) wrote in message

Gareth,

You forgot to mention one thing: The NYC subway system has "express"
trains.

I've been to London 4x (can't wait for the fifth) and I've lived in
the NY area for 30. The LU is much more user friendly. The NYC
subway is confusing even if you've got a map on your lap.

Toodles!

--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 8 March 2004

Hey Annabel, the above link dosen't exist, but found your pix on
following link: http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/photos/

......You're a chunky, goodlooking tootsie who seems to be quite
agile on a skating rink!

John Rowland wrote:
"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 at 14:03:03, John Rowland
wrote:

"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
...

According to some sources, they can't do the
"next train" indicators that we have, as it's "too
complex", which I think is b*ll*cks, but there you are.....

Well, LUL can't do the next train indicators either,
at least they can't do them properly!


True, but at least they give you some idea!


What I meant was that although they are very useful on the Victoria Line and
certain other lines, there are stations on the Circle Line where the nice
multiline LED displays only tell you about one train[1], and only when it is
practically in the station anyway. The Piccadilly Line displays are great at
telling you about the next three trains to Heathrow but neglecting to give
any clues about the next train to Rayners. It is almost as if the system was
bought off the shelf, having been originally designed for a network with
simpler lines (such as Tokyo or Paris Metro).

[1] That's one LU train, not one ONE train.


You know I never even considered that it would be more useful to show
the next trains to Heathrow and Rayners Lane rather than just the next
three trains whereever they go. I suspect that it wouldn't cause much
problem on the Piccadilly technically... but I think they prefer people
to just get on the first train to Acton anyway if there's no Rayners in
the next three, to ease possible overcrowding.

After all, in the winter when you're waiting in a warm tunnel, if you
knew the next Rayners train was in ten minutes and that it was the fifth
train, would you still get the first train to Acton Town and change...?

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"C stock" wrote in message
...


Hey Annabel, the above link dosen't exist, but found your pix on
following link: http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/photos/

.....You're a chunky, goodlooking tootsie who seems to be quite
agile on a skating rink!

Less of your lip, or she'll give you a right hook, like she gave this chap!
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/photos/P014.jpg

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 at 15:20:53, John Rowland
wrote:

What I meant was that although they are very useful on the Victoria Line and
certain other lines, there are stations on the Circle Line where the nice
multiline LED displays only tell you about one train[1], and only when it is
practically in the station anyway. The Piccadilly Line displays are great at
telling you about the next three trains to Heathrow but neglecting to give
any clues about the next train to Rayners. It is almost as if the system was
bought off the shelf, having been originally designed for a network with
simpler lines (such as Tokyo or Paris Metro).

Seems to work pretty well on the Northern Line, though, than which you
can't get much more complicated. I'm learning rather more about its
vagaries than I ever wished to know, at the moment..... the Jubilee line
seems far simpler.

Although who, who, recorded the bright and breezy voice that says
"Willesden Green!" after the rather dreary "This train terminates
at".....
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 8 March 2004

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 at 18:54:16, John Rowland
wrote:

"C stock" wrote in message
...


Hey Annabel, the above link dosen't exist, but found your pix on
following link: http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/photos/

.....You're a chunky, goodlooking tootsie who seems to be quite
agile on a skating rink!

Less of your lip, or she'll give you a right hook, like she gave this chap!
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/photos/P014.jpg

Indeed I might! Link is working now, by the way - thanks for pointing
out that it wasn't.
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 8 March 2004

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:20:53 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

[dmis]
What I meant was that although they are very useful on the Victoria Line and
certain other lines, there are stations on the Circle Line where the nice
multiline LED displays only tell you about one train[1], and only when it is
practically in the station anyway. The Piccadilly Line displays are great at
telling you about the next three trains to Heathrow but neglecting to give
any clues about the next train to Rayners. It is almost as if the system was
bought off the shelf, having been originally designed for a network with
simpler lines (such as Tokyo or Paris Metro).

While I acknowledge the points that you have made about refining the
information provision the main point is that the dot matrix indicators
(DMIs) were a simple upgrade off the back of existing signalling
systems. In the case of the Circle the signalling system and design is
not sophisticated enough to look back far enough to correctly determine
the sequence of trains. There is also the issue of trains terminating /
departing at key junctions (edgware rd, aldgate) that add to the
complication as to what will be e.g the next s/b train at Paddington on
the Circle / District line.

The Jubilee Line and Central Lines are better because there is a much
more up to date control system which can better understand where the
trains are relative to the timetable and can therefore provide a better
prediction of arrival times and destinations to both the controller and
to the DMIs. Almost every other LUL line is decades behind modern day
practice - new displays will be provided at all stations and when Line
Upgrades come into operation there should be the level of sophistication
of information that deals with the network's apparent complications. I
look forward to that day.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!