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#61
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Latest Heathrow master plan
On 19/06/2019 14:03, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 19/06/2019 13:34, Recliner wrote: On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:24:15 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:04:50 on Wed, 19 Jun 2019, Recliner remarked: I pointed out that the buried/bridged motorway will be built on a new alignment, to the west of the current M25, so building it won't disrupt the existing motorway or flights. Only the short period of linking the old carriageways and new diversion will cause any disruption, and that should be short (mainly a few days or weeks of lane closures, then a few hours of complete closure while the traffic is switched to the new route). It's far too close to the intersection with the M4 for the geometry to work. Not only that, Heathrow's own information shows the M25 route undiverted (only local roads have new corridors): https://aec.heathrowconsultation.com...tes/5/2019/06/ P1-11-Local-Roads-Diverted.jpg Thanks for that. That map clearly confirms the M25 diversion to the west: it has a more pronounced curve under the runways than the current route. It's a small enough diversion not to need any changes to the M4 junction. I've overlaid a translucent Google Map view on top of the new map, and you can clearly see the diversion. https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/48091808766/in/dateposted-friend/lightbox/ That confirms it is going to be foul of the current interchange which is going to be less easy to adapt. .... although no bridges in either junction will have to be rebuilt. -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to Nine Horses - 2005 - Snow Borne Sorrow |
#62
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Latest Heathrow master plan
On 19/06/2019 18:02, Basil Jet wrote:
On 19/06/2019 14:03, Graeme Wall wrote: On 19/06/2019 13:34, Recliner wrote: On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:24:15 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:04:50 on Wed, 19 Jun 2019, Recliner remarked: I pointed out that the buried/bridged motorway will be built on a new alignment, to the west of the current M25, so building it won't disrupt the existing motorway or flights. Only the short period of linking the old carriageways and new diversion will cause any disruption, and that should be short (mainly a few days or weeks of lane closures, then a few hours of complete closure while the traffic is switched to the new route). It's far too close to the intersection with the M4 for the geometry to work. Not only that, Heathrow's own information shows the M25 route undiverted (only local roads have new corridors): https://aec.heathrowconsultation.com...tes/5/2019/06/ P1-11-Local-Roads-Diverted.jpg Thanks for that. That map clearly confirms the M25 diversion to the west: it has a more pronounced curve under the runways than the current route. It's a small enough diversion not to need any changes to the M4 junction. I've overlaid a translucent Google Map view on top of the new map, and you can clearly see the diversion. https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/48091808766/in/dateposted-friend/lightbox/ That confirms it is going to be foul of the current interchange which is going to be less easy to adapt. ... although no bridges in either junction will have to be rebuilt. If the new layout is foul of the current junction how is that going to work? -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
#63
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Latest Heathrow master plan
On 19/06/2019 18:53, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 19/06/2019 18:02, Basil Jet wrote: On 19/06/2019 14:03, Graeme Wall wrote: On 19/06/2019 13:34, Recliner wrote: On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:24:15 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:04:50 on Wed, 19 Jun 2019, Recliner remarked: I pointed out that the buried/bridged motorway will be built on a new alignment, to the west of the current M25, so building it won't disrupt the existing motorway or flights. Only the short period of linking the old carriageways and new diversion will cause any disruption, and that should be short (mainly a few days or weeks of lane closures, then a few hours of complete closure while the traffic is switched to the new route). It's far too close to the intersection with the M4 for the geometry to work. Not only that, Heathrow's own information shows the M25 route undiverted (only local roads have new corridors): https://aec.heathrowconsultation.com...tes/5/2019/06/ P1-11-Local-Roads-Diverted.jpg Thanks for that. That map clearly confirms the M25 diversion to the west: it has a more pronounced curve under the runways than the current route. It's a small enough diversion not to need any changes to the M4 junction. I've overlaid a translucent Google Map view on top of the new map, and you can clearly see the diversion. https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/48091808766/in/dateposted-friend/lightbox/ That confirms it is going to be foul of the current interchange which is going to be less easy to adapt. ... although no bridges in either junction will have to be rebuilt. If the new layout is foul of the current junction how is that going to work? Unless you have sight problems, you can work out everything I know from the flickr image above. -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to Nine Horses - 2005 - Snow Borne Sorrow |
#64
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Latest Heathrow master plan
On 19/06/2019 19:18, Basil Jet wrote:
On 19/06/2019 18:53, Graeme Wall wrote: On 19/06/2019 18:02, Basil Jet wrote: On 19/06/2019 14:03, Graeme Wall wrote: On 19/06/2019 13:34, Recliner wrote: On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:24:15 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:04:50 on Wed, 19 Jun 2019, Recliner remarked: I pointed out that the buried/bridged motorway will be built on a new alignment, to the west of the current M25, so building it won't disrupt the existing motorway or flights. Only the short period of linking the old carriageways and new diversion will cause any disruption, and that should be short (mainly a few days or weeks of lane closures, then a few hours of complete closure while the traffic is switched to the new route). It's far too close to the intersection with the M4 for the geometry to work. Not only that, Heathrow's own information shows the M25 route undiverted (only local roads have new corridors): https://aec.heathrowconsultation.com...tes/5/2019/06/ P1-11-Local-Roads-Diverted.jpg Thanks for that. That map clearly confirms the M25 diversion to the west: it has a more pronounced curve under the runways than the current route. It's a small enough diversion not to need any changes to the M4 junction. I've overlaid a translucent Google Map view on top of the new map, and you can clearly see the diversion. https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/48091808766/in/dateposted-friend/lightbox/ That confirms it is going to be foul of the current interchange which is going to be less easy to adapt. ... although no bridges in either junction will have to be rebuilt. If the new layout is foul of the current junction how is that going to work? Unless you have sight problems, you can work out everything I know from the flickr image above. I currently do have sight problems but that diagram clearly shows the slip roads from the new alignment being foul of the existing layout. I'm hoping to go and see the actual documents in the library tomorrow so may get a better idea then. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
#65
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Latest Heathrow master plan
On 19/06/2019 19:43, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 19/06/2019 19:18, Basil Jet wrote: On 19/06/2019 18:53, Graeme Wall wrote: On 19/06/2019 18:02, Basil Jet wrote: On 19/06/2019 14:03, Graeme Wall wrote: On 19/06/2019 13:34, Recliner wrote: On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:24:15 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:04:50 on Wed, 19 Jun 2019, Recliner remarked: I pointed out that the buried/bridged motorway will be built on a new alignment, to the west of the current M25, so building it won't disrupt the existing motorway or flights. Only the short period of linking the old carriageways and new diversion will cause any disruption, and that should be short (mainly a few days or weeks of lane closures, then a few hours of complete closure while the traffic is switched to the new route). It's far too close to the intersection with the M4 for the geometry to work. Not only that, Heathrow's own information shows the M25 route undiverted (only local roads have new corridors): https://aec.heathrowconsultation.com...tes/5/2019/06/ P1-11-Local-Roads-Diverted.jpg Thanks for that. That map clearly confirms the M25 diversion to the west: it has a more pronounced curve under the runways than the current route. It's a small enough diversion not to need any changes to the M4 junction. I've overlaid a translucent Google Map view on top of the new map, and you can clearly see the diversion. https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/48091808766/in/dateposted-friend/lightbox/ That confirms it is going to be foul of the current interchange which is going to be less easy to adapt. ... although no bridges in either junction will have to be rebuilt. If the new layout is foul of the current junction how is that going to work? Unless you have sight problems, you can work out everything I know from the flickr image above. I currently do have sight problems but that diagram clearly shows the slip roads from the new alignment being foul of the existing layout. I'm hoping to go and see the actual documents in the library tomorrow so may get a better idea then. The bridges are all in the centres of the junctions, and the roads in those area are unchanged, unlike the roads on the southern part of the M4 junction or the northern part of the T5 junction. (I'm not counting gantries as bridges.) -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to Prefab Sprout - 1985 - Steve McQueen |
#66
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Latest Heathrow master plan
In message , at 20:09:11 on Wed, 19 Jun
2019, Basil Jet remarked: I currently do have sight problems but that diagram clearly shows the slip roads from the new alignment being foul of the existing layout. I'm hoping to go and see the actual documents in the library tomorrow so may get a better idea then. The bridges are all in the centres of the junctions, and the roads in those area are unchanged, unlike the roads on the southern part of the M4 junction or the northern part of the T5 junction. (I'm not counting gantries as bridges.) Talking of gantries; along with lamp-posts, central reservation barriers, and all the other street furniture, they'd have to be removed along the affected stretches to make the "set of points, with road cones swapping the flow overnight" operation postulated up-thread. -- Roland Perry |
#67
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Latest Heathrow master plan
On 19/06/2019 20:09, Basil Jet wrote:
On 19/06/2019 19:43, Graeme Wall wrote: On 19/06/2019 19:18, Basil Jet wrote: On 19/06/2019 18:53, Graeme Wall wrote: On 19/06/2019 18:02, Basil Jet wrote: On 19/06/2019 14:03, Graeme Wall wrote: On 19/06/2019 13:34, Recliner wrote: On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:24:15 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:04:50 on Wed, 19 Jun 2019, Recliner remarked: I pointed out that the buried/bridged motorway will be built on a new alignment, to the west of the current M25, so building it won't disrupt the existing motorway or flights. Only the short period of linking the old carriageways and new diversion will cause any disruption, and that should be short (mainly a few days or weeks of lane closures, then a few hours of complete closure while the traffic is switched to the new route). It's far too close to the intersection with the M4 for the geometry to work. Not only that, Heathrow's own information shows the M25 route undiverted (only local roads have new corridors): https://aec.heathrowconsultation.com...tes/5/2019/06/ P1-11-Local-Roads-Diverted.jpg Thanks for that. That map clearly confirms the M25 diversion to the west: it has a more pronounced curve under the runways than the current route. It's a small enough diversion not to need any changes to the M4 junction. I've overlaid a translucent Google Map view on top of the new map, and you can clearly see the diversion. https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/48091808766/in/dateposted-friend/lightbox/ That confirms it is going to be foul of the current interchange which is going to be less easy to adapt. ... although no bridges in either junction will have to be rebuilt. If the new layout is foul of the current junction how is that going to work? Unless you have sight problems, you can work out everything I know from the flickr image above. I currently do have sight problems but that diagram clearly shows the slip roads from the new alignment being foul of the existing layout. I'm hoping to go and see the actual documents in the library tomorrow so may get a better idea then. The bridges are all in the centres of the junctions, and the roads in those area are unchanged, unlike the roads on the southern part of the M4 junction or the northern part of the T5 junction. (I'm not counting gantries as bridges.) What about the sliproads? -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
#68
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Latest Heathrow master plan
In article , Roland Perry
writes Presumably all the rerouting of traffic on the A14 project is going swimmingly, to a similar plan? All the bits I've seen have been. For example, the new temporary northwestbound entry slip at Bar Hill was done that way. There's lots of bits of new carriageway waiting to be connected (e.g. northwestbound between the services north of Bar Hill and the Swavesey intersection, though I think that's waiting for the Lolworth bridge to be completed). Or, for another example, the diversion of the westbound A14 loop on to the M11 (or possibly temporarily-not-M11). Or the diversion of the northwestbound A1307 between Girton and the new Dry Drayton roundabout. -- Clive D.W. Feather |
#69
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Latest Heathrow master plan
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 19/06/2019 18:02, Basil Jet wrote: On 19/06/2019 14:03, Graeme Wall wrote: On 19/06/2019 13:34, Recliner wrote: On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:24:15 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:04:50 on Wed, 19 Jun 2019, Recliner remarked: I pointed out that the buried/bridged motorway will be built on a new alignment, to the west of the current M25, so building it won't disrupt the existing motorway or flights. Only the short period of linking the old carriageways and new diversion will cause any disruption, and that should be short (mainly a few days or weeks of lane closures, then a few hours of complete closure while the traffic is switched to the new route). It's far too close to the intersection with the M4 for the geometry to work. Not only that, Heathrow's own information shows the M25 route undiverted (only local roads have new corridors): https://aec.heathrowconsultation.com...tes/5/2019/06/ P1-11-Local-Roads-Diverted.jpg Thanks for that. That map clearly confirms the M25 diversion to the west: it has a more pronounced curve under the runways than the current route. It's a small enough diversion not to need any changes to the M4 junction. I've overlaid a translucent Google Map view on top of the new map, and you can clearly see the diversion. https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/48091808766/in/dateposted-friend/lightbox/ That confirms it is going to be foul of the current interchange which is going to be less easy to adapt. ... although no bridges in either junction will have to be rebuilt. If the new layout is foul of the current junction how is that going to work? You first connect the completed new carriageway and its M4 slip road to the old slip road just before it splits into the east and west bound links. For the next few months, traffic heading for the M4 will be diverted to the new northbound carriageway, while through traffic will continue to use the existing carriageway. During this time, the new carriageway will be built through the old northbound slip road to connect to the ood carriageway. Again, there will be and closures for a few weeks and an overnight complete closure as the final connection is made. Southbound is easier, but, again, connecting traffic from the M4 might continue to use the old carriageway for a little while after the through M25 traffic has been diverted to the new carriageway. |
#70
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Latest Heathrow master plan
tim... wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message ... On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:43:48 +0100, "Clive D.W. Feather" wrote: In article , Roland Perry writes The only disruption will come at the end, when the traffic is diverted to the new route. My guess is that the northbound traffic will be moved first, with a few weeks of lane 1 closures required while they connect the new to the old carriageways, then an overnight closure for the final switch to be made. The same procedure would then be followed a few months later to divert the southbound carriageway to the new alignment. The amount of work you would be expecting them to do "overnight" beggars belief. I disagree. Build the two new carriageways. At each end, cut them off very close to the edge of northbound lane 1 (there's no hard shoulder, right? if there is, adjust description accordingly). Cone off northbound lane 1. Spend a week or two filling in the narrow gap between the old and new northbounds at each end. Not sure that you even need a closure to switch over. Simply move all the cones. Repeat for the southbound (though this time you're closing lane 4). Yes, that's what I'm expecting. I have never in my life seen construction companies do this even when the new road is well away from the old route It costs millions extra to do it that way Why would it cost any extra? You have a completely segregated work site to the west of the existing road, to build the new, lowered carriageways, with runway and taxiway bridges. This might take 2-3 years, and won't affect the existing motorway, except for a few lane closures while a safety wall is built between the existing northbound carriageway and the work site. When the new carriageway is ready, you need to close lane 1 of the old northbound carriageway for a few weeks while the physical connection of the road surfaces is made, and then an overnight closure for first the M4-bound traffic to be diverted, and then again when the through traffic is switched. A few months later, a similar process is used to connect the southbound. It won't be nearly as disruptive as when the M25 was widened to 12 lanes in the area. |
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