London Transport (uk.transport.london) Discussion of all forms of transport in London.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old July 12th 19, 01:44 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jul 2019
Posts: 41
Default ES: Crossrail at risk of being delayed even further

Crossrail is at major risk of having its opening delayed by even
longer than already feared and requiring even more public money, it
emerged today.

The crisis-hit line has already soared £2.8bn in cost to £17.6bn and
its opening is due between October 2020 and March 2021, the original
December 2018 date having been abandoned a year ago.

A series of high-level warnings by Crossrail’s independent watchdog,
the engineering firm Jacobs, were due to be made public by Transport
for London today.

It is understood that these will reveal that the project faces
additional “cost pressures and scheduling pressures” that make opening
it within the promised six-month window and expanded budget even more
challenging.

They will raise concerns that the opening schedule remains “too
optimistic” - though it is not thought that Jacobs calls for the date
to be delayed further.

Jacobs is understood to fear that a “number of longer-term risks may
not be receiving the focus necessary to ensure that the schedule and
cost are delivered in line with expectations”.

A “persistent trend” in rising costs, low productivity levels, missed
targets, and a lack of “robust” risk analysis are highlighted.
Concerns about the new signalling and the new £1bn fleet of trains
remain. One part of the scheme has been given a “red” rating.

Mayor Sadiq Khan strengthened the scrutiny powers of Jacobs to reveal
problems with Crossrail and increase the project’s transparency. The
alerts relate to Jacobs analysis throughout April and May.

.... continues in:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/crossrail-at-risk-of-being-delayed-even-further-a4188451.html

  #2   Report Post  
Old July 12th 19, 01:50 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,512
Default ES: Crossrail at risk of being delayed even further

In message , at 14:44:13 on
Fri, 12 Jul 2019, Recliner remarked:

Mayor Sadiq Khan strengthened the scrutiny powers of Jacobs to reveal
problems with Crossrail and increase the project’s transparency.


Is he trying to distance himself from the project's failings, despite
being in charge the last three and a bit years?
--
Roland Perry
  #3   Report Post  
Old July 12th 19, 02:48 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jul 2019
Posts: 41
Default ES: Crossrail at risk of being delayed even further

Basil Jet wrote:
On 12/07/2019 15:09, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:53:19 on
Fri, 12 Jul 2019, Recliner remarked:

Mayor Sadiq Khan strengthened the scrutiny powers of Jacobs to reveal
problems with Crossrail and increase the project’s transparency.

Is he trying to distance himself from the project's failings, despite
being in charge the last three and a bit years?

It's not clear which politician was in charge: responsibility seems to
have been shared between the DfT and TfL. Either way, and perhaps as a
consequence, neither was providing much supervision or oversight. Khan
now seems to be much more in charge and taking an interest, as it's
clear that TfL will have to suffer the consequence of delays and
overspends.


From the Crossrail website:

"About Crossrail Ltd

Crossrail Limited, established in 2001, is the company that has been
set up to build the new railway that will become known as the
Elizabeth line when it opens through central London.

It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Transport for London (TfL)..."

No hiding place for the Mayor!!


I'm no fan of Labour or Khan, but it's by no means obvious that the
blame lies with Khan, or Boris, or elsewhere. If the Mayor is being told
everything's fine, how can they know otherwise?



As I understand it, to avoid constant political interference, Crossrail was
set up with quite a lot of autonomy for the management, so long as the
project was on time and on budget. This gave the management a strong
motivation to report that all was well long after things started to go
wrong.

In retrospect, it should have been obvious that some stations were
obviously late, as was train testing, but I guess everyone was just happy
to get reassuringly good news in the review meetings.

  #4   Report Post  
Old July 12th 19, 07:31 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jun 2019
Posts: 22
Default ES: Crossrail at risk of being delayed even further

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 14:48:05 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 12/07/2019 15:09, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:53:19 on
Fri, 12 Jul 2019, Recliner remarked:

Mayor Sadiq Khan strengthened the scrutiny powers of Jacobs to reveal
problems with Crossrail and increase the project’s transparency.

Is he trying to distance himself from the project's failings, despite
being in charge the last three and a bit years?

It's not clear which politician was in charge: responsibility seems to
have been shared between the DfT and TfL. Either way, and perhaps as a
consequence, neither was providing much supervision or oversight. Khan
now seems to be much more in charge and taking an interest, as it's
clear that TfL will have to suffer the consequence of delays and
overspends.

From the Crossrail website:

"About Crossrail Ltd

Crossrail Limited, established in 2001, is the company that has been
set up to build the new railway that will become known as the
Elizabeth line when it opens through central London.

It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Transport for London (TfL)..."

No hiding place for the Mayor!!


I'm no fan of Labour or Khan, but it's by no means obvious that the
blame lies with Khan, or Boris, or elsewhere. If the Mayor is being told
everything's fine, how can they know otherwise?


Perhaps when Boris becomes PM he can repent for his sins as mayor and do
everyone a favour by putting a bullet in HS2. A high speed line to complement
the WCML might be a good idea, but not for the 11 figure sums being quoted.
There are far better railway infrastructure projects that could be spent on
IMO.

  #5   Report Post  
Old July 13th 19, 08:25 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jun 2016
Posts: 36
Default ES: Crossrail at risk of being delayed even further

On 13/07/2019 09:55, Guy Gorton wrote:

A reasonable opinion but large areas of Buckinghamshire and
Hertfordshire have already been disfigured by the works, so lets not
make all that inconvenience be for nothing.

Guy Gorton

No, No, No !

Classic accountancy nostrum:

"The first loss is the cheapest loss"

i.e. when a project is delinquent, write off the costs to date and pull
out asap.


  #6   Report Post  
Old July 13th 19, 08:48 AM
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Feb 2011
Location: Leyton, East London
Posts: 865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by View Post
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 14:48:05 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet
wrote:
On 12/07/2019 15:09, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 14:53:19 on
Fri, 12 Jul 2019, Recliner
remarked:

Mayor Sadiq Khan strengthened the scrutiny powers of Jacobs to reveal
problems with Crossrail and increase the project’s transparency.

Is he trying to distance himself from the project's failings, despite
being in charge the last three and a bit years?

It's not clear which politician was in charge: responsibility seems to
have been shared between the DfT and TfL. Either way, and perhaps as a
consequence, neither was providing much supervision or oversight. Khan
now seems to be much more in charge and taking an interest, as it's
clear that TfL will have to suffer the consequence of delays and
overspends.

From the Crossrail website:

"About Crossrail Ltd

Crossrail Limited, established in 2001, is the company that has been
set up to build the new railway that will become known as the
Elizabeth line when it opens through central London.

It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Transport for London (TfL)..."

No hiding place for the Mayor!!


I'm no fan of Labour or Khan, but it's by no means obvious that the
blame lies with Khan, or Boris, or elsewhere. If the Mayor is being told
everything's fine, how can they know otherwise?


Perhaps when Boris becomes PM he can repent for his sins as mayor and do
everyone a favour by putting a bullet in HS2. A high speed line to complement
the WCML might be a good idea, but not for the 11 figure sums being quoted.
There are far better railway infrastructure projects that could be spent on
IMO.
A narcissist does not repent his sins, nor even admit having any. This
is one of the several ways narcissists are similar to psychopaths.
  #7   Report Post  
Old July 13th 19, 08:55 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Oct 2013
Posts: 64
Default ES: Crossrail at risk of being delayed even further

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:31:23 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 14:48:05 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 12/07/2019 15:09, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:53:19 on
Fri, 12 Jul 2019, Recliner remarked:

Mayor Sadiq Khan strengthened the scrutiny powers of Jacobs to reveal
problems with Crossrail and increase the project’s transparency.

Is he trying to distance himself from the project's failings, despite
being in charge the last three and a bit years?

It's not clear which politician was in charge: responsibility seems to
have been shared between the DfT and TfL. Either way, and perhaps as a
consequence, neither was providing much supervision or oversight. Khan
now seems to be much more in charge and taking an interest, as it's
clear that TfL will have to suffer the consequence of delays and
overspends.

From the Crossrail website:

"About Crossrail Ltd

Crossrail Limited, established in 2001, is the company that has been
set up to build the new railway that will become known as the
Elizabeth line when it opens through central London.

It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Transport for London (TfL)..."

No hiding place for the Mayor!!


I'm no fan of Labour or Khan, but it's by no means obvious that the
blame lies with Khan, or Boris, or elsewhere. If the Mayor is being told
everything's fine, how can they know otherwise?


Perhaps when Boris becomes PM he can repent for his sins as mayor and do
everyone a favour by putting a bullet in HS2. A high speed line to complement
the WCML might be a good idea, but not for the 11 figure sums being quoted.
There are far better railway infrastructure projects that could be spent on
IMO.


A reasonable opinion but large areas of Buckinghamshire and
Hertfordshire have already been disfigured by the works, so lets not
make all that inconvenience be for nothing.

Guy Gorton
  #8   Report Post  
Old July 13th 19, 10:22 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Feb 2016
Posts: 819
Default ES: Crossrail at risk of being delayed even further



"Guy Gorton" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:31:23 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 14:48:05 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 12/07/2019 15:09, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:53:19
on
Fri, 12 Jul 2019, Recliner remarked:

Mayor Sadiq Khan strengthened the scrutiny powers of Jacobs to
reveal
problems with Crossrail and increase the projectâ?Ts transparency.

Is he trying to distance himself from the project's failings,
despite
being in charge the last three and a bit years?

It's not clear which politician was in charge: responsibility seems
to
have been shared between the DfT and TfL. Either way, and perhaps as
a
consequence, neither was providing much supervision or oversight.
Khan
now seems to be much more in charge and taking an interest, as it's
clear that TfL will have to suffer the consequence of delays and
overspends.

From the Crossrail website:

"About Crossrail Ltd

Crossrail Limited, established in 2001, is the company that has been
set up to build the new railway that will become known as the
Elizabeth line when it opens through central London.

It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Transport for London (TfL)..."

No hiding place for the Mayor!!


I'm no fan of Labour or Khan, but it's by no means obvious that the
blame lies with Khan, or Boris, or elsewhere. If the Mayor is being
told
everything's fine, how can they know otherwise?


Perhaps when Boris becomes PM he can repent for his sins as mayor and do
everyone a favour by putting a bullet in HS2. A high speed line to
complement
the WCML might be a good idea, but not for the 11 figure sums being
quoted.
There are far better railway infrastructure projects that could be spent
on
IMO.


A reasonable opinion but large areas of Buckinghamshire and
Hertfordshire have already been disfigured by the works, so lets not
make all that inconvenience be for nothing.


the fallacy of the sunk costs

tim



  #9   Report Post  
Old July 13th 19, 12:54 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jun 2018
Posts: 47
Default ES: Crossrail at risk of being delayed even further

On 13/07/2019 11:22, tim... wrote:
the fallacy of the sunk costs


That (like loss aversion and status quo bias) is an issue with the
mental state of decision takers. It's not an argument against decisions
on whether or not to proceed based on objective assessments of the
options as they stand now - taking account of both work already done and
lessons from that work for the likely future costs.






--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  #10   Report Post  
Old July 13th 19, 01:00 PM posted to uk.transport.london
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jan 2012
Posts: 33
Default ES: Crossrail at risk of being delayed even further


"Roland Perry" wrote in message ...
In message , at 14:44:13 on Fri, 12 Jul
2019, Recliner remarked:

Mayor Sadiq Khan strengthened the scrutiny powers of Jacobs to reveal
problems with Crossrail and increase the project's transparency.


Is he trying to distance himself from the project's failings, despite being in charge
the last three and a bit years?


Being in charge ?

Anyone capable of taking overall charge of the largest infrastructure project in
Europe would command a far higher salary and have far fewer extraneous
responsibilities, than does the elected Mayor of London.

Or put the other way, as with most levels in politics anyone capable of taking
overall charge of the largest infrastructure project in Europe - or any aspect
therein come to that wouldn't touch any such elected position with a bargepole.
If only because as in this instance with Kahn, they'd only lay themselves open
to ill-informed and tendentious criticism from craven opportunists such as
yourself.
Far better to negotiate themselves a lucrative long-term contract and then walk
off into the sunset *with pockets bulging when it all goes tits
up.


michael adams

*or at least until the next nice little earner comes along.

....





Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Breaking news: Crossrail opening delayed Recliner[_3_] London Transport 8 August 31st 18 05:32 PM
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk CJB London Transport 161 July 3rd 14 08:43 PM
Commuters suffer while Crowe inflates his ego even further [email protected] London Transport 23 May 31st 09 11:33 AM
Commuters suffer while Crowe inflates his ego even further [email protected] London Transport 42 May 28th 09 05:05 PM
"Flooding risk to Thames tunnels" Mizter T London Transport 4 September 30th 06 06:56 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:32 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2019 London Banter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about London Transport"

 

Copyright © 2017