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Old November 25th 19, 09:57 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 23:33:10 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 21:00:07 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote:
Other than airport vehicles which have to fit under things, it's all for
the same reason - quick and easy access of people (be they staff or
passengers) into the vehicle.

Many airport vehicles tend to have equipment/structures which overhang
the cab. The great majority of refuse vehicles have conventional
height cabs including ones built by Dennis. AFAIR entry/egress is not
necessarily easier as the design causes the wheel arch to intrude into
the rear of the cab doorway and thus reduces the available width at
the bottom in what in photographs seems to be the shorter of two cab
lengths. Photographs also show that the rear door pillar is often
forward of the rear of the driver's seat thus preventing exiting by
simply turning through 90deg and stepping out.


Unlike in the railway industry - when road rules are made the driver is the
last person considered. In the USA truck drivers get nice large cabs and a long
bonnet thats a useful crumple zone in a crash. In the EU with its dumb
overall length rules the tractor unit and hence cab is made as short as
possible so the trailer can be as long as possible in the rules. So all there
is between you and whatever you hit is the windscreen and dashboard. Doesn't
matter if its a car, it does if its another lorry or a tree.



"Directive (EU) 2015/719 (which amends Directive 96/53/EC ) grants
derogations on the maximal lengths to make heavy goods vehicles greener by
improving their aerodynamic performance. This also provides the opportunity
to make them safer by including new features in the extra space in the
driver cabin."


Anna Noyd-Dryver


  #102   Report Post  
Old November 25th 19, 09:57 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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OTOH train drivers don't have to:
- steer
- maintain a safe distance from the vehicle in front
- keep in lane
- manouver in tight spaces
- know dozens of road signs and act accordingly


Dozens of railway signs instead.

- reverse while looking in mirrors
- get the timing right pulling out from junctions
- merge with fast moving traffic on a motorway
- worry about height restrictions (for lorry and bus)


Restrictions on which kinds of stock are/are not allowed along certain
lines/platforms instead, and different speeds for different kinds of stock
on some lines.


Anna Noyd-Dryver


  #103   Report Post  
Old November 25th 19, 09:57 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 16:23:24 +0000
Bevan Price wrote:
On 25/11/2019 11:43, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 11:55:09 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
The test for a commercial vehicle is a LOT harder than a car. You don't get


away with many mistakes and the test enviroment is a lot more varied. Kev

and

Trace might scrape through driving their corsa a bit erratically on a car
test
but they'd be failed in minutes on an HGV or bus test.



And yet with the same breath you dismiss train driving as 'pulling levers'.
Surely you realise that the train driving assessment is just as strict, if
not more so?

I can imagine being a steam locomotive driver was a bugger of a job.

Physically
hard and you had to get the feel of the engine under different loads. I

suspect
driving a modern freight loco is still tricky (although not physically) as

you
could be just driving the loco itself or have 2000 tons behing you.

Driving a computer controlled EMU though that won't allow you to play silly
buggers with the throttle and brake, doesn't change much in behaviour from
empty to full load, doesn't have to be steered and when it goes wrong needs
a technician with a laptop to turn up anyway? Don't tell me thats

particularly
hard.

Seems to me the only hard part of being a modern EMU driver is the shift work


aspect of the job, other than that - piece of ****.


Nonsense. I have never driven a real train, but I was once allowed to
drive a dmu simulator. The most difficult part was knowing when / where
to apply the brakes for checks or station stops. And that involved just
one check and one (simulated) station.


So? A bit of practice and no doubt it becomes 2nd nature.

Dependent on the extent of their route knowledge, drivers may need to
know the locations of dozens of stations, numerous signals and speed
restrictions - at daylight - in good or bad visibility, or at night -
and then need to be able to judge the best places to apply brakes -
often on several types of unit - and in all sorts of weather conditions.
In addition, they need to be prepared for short term temporary speed limits.


And thats different to the experience of driving a road vehicle how exactly?



How much 'practice' do you think you'll need to drive a ~600 tonne object
which takes over a mile to stop, at up to 125mph in 50 yard visibility fog,
without losing time, over 700 miles of route?


Anna Noyd-Dryver

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Old November 26th 19, 10:28 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 16:57:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:47:21 on Mon, 25 Nov
2019, remarked:

train drivers don't have to:
- steer
- maintain a safe distance from the vehicle in front


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/t...t-neville-hill


Well SPADs are another matter as is going through a red traffic light.


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Old November 26th 19, 10:39 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 22:57:16 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:


With a lorry test , as long as you can keep it on the road, don't clip the
scenery and don't hit anyone you'll probably pass though with the Class 1
test you have to reverse with a trailer which isn't easy. God knows how the
aussie drivers reverse a double or triple.


I strongly suspect that they don’t reverse them because it’s got to be near

enough impossible, surely?


Impossible for me, you and 99.99% of people. But some people can do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3j6FvzfnRE

I guess that counts counter counter counter steering.

When I was having lessons I spoke about this with my instructor. Once someone
got him out to reverse a continental double (trailer with its own steering
bogie) that had got stuck in a cul de sac and its driver couldn't do it. He
said he tried for 5 mins and gave up. Apparently the trailer had to be dragged
out backwards in the end.


  #107   Report Post  
Old November 26th 19, 10:39 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 16:57:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:47:21 on Mon, 25 Nov
2019, remarked:

train drivers don't have to:
- steer
- maintain a safe distance from the vehicle in front


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/t...t-neville-hill


Well SPADs are another matter as is going through a red traffic light.



That wasn't a SPAD.

  #108   Report Post  
Old November 26th 19, 12:08 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On 25/11/2019 22:57, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:

How much 'practice' do you think you'll need to drive a ~600 tonne object
which takes over a mile to stop, at up to 125mph in 50 yard visibility fog,
without losing time, over 700 miles of route?



Surely the Aberdeen-Penzance train doesn't have a single driver for the
13 hour journey.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Electronic - 1996 - Raise The Pressure (bonus tracks, complete)
  #109   Report Post  
Old November 26th 19, 01:12 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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In message , at 13:08:46 on Tue, 26 Nov
2019, Basil Jet remarked:

How much 'practice' do you think you'll need to drive a ~600 tonne
object which takes over a mile to stop, at up to 125mph in 50 yard
visibility fog, without losing time, over 700 miles of route?


Surely the Aberdeen-Penzance train doesn't have a single driver for the
13 hour journey.


The reason so many trains stop a places like York and Preston isn't
because they are especially big important places, but they are halfway
to Scotland, and they can swap drivers.

No doubt the sleepers swap at Edinburgh/Glasgow too.
--
Roland Perry
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Old November 26th 19, 01:48 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Jobsworth driver

wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 16:57:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:47:21 on Mon, 25 Nov
2019, remarked:

train drivers don't have to:
- steer
- maintain a safe distance from the vehicle in front


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/t...t-neville-hill


Well SPADs are another matter as is going through a red traffic light.


That wasn't a spad.


Anna Noyd-Dryver



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