London Transport (uk.transport.london) Discussion of all forms of transport in London.

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Old December 1st 19, 05:16 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 19:57:59 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 28/11/2019 19:16, Bevan Price wrote:

As a bus passenger, I notice numerous occasions when people at bus stops
(serving multiple routes) stick their arms out - after the front of the
bus has passed the stop -- and then look puzzled / annoyed when the bus
fails to stop. They must think that bus drivers are mindreaders...


These passengers were probably queueing behind someone else and didn't
realise that the other person didn't want this bus until it was too
late. The requirement that bus passengers should queue and the
requirement that they should hail the buses conflict, unless every bus
calling at the stop is going to the same places.

AFAIAA the requirement to queue went in a prevoous Tory "bonfire of
red tape".

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Old December 1st 19, 02:59 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:13:23 +0000, MissRiaElaine
wrote:

On 27/11/2019 19:06, Robin Stevens wrote:

Some Oxford buses tell you to remain in your seat until the bus reaches its
stop, but not all seats have a button for the bell within reach - the first
on the top deck is about three rows back, for instance. When I've
complained to them about their vehicles not having bells within easy reach,
they blame the manufacturers, as though despite being one of the Big Five
bus operators in the country and purchasing their vehicles from new, they
have no say over bus design.


They probably don't. These things are decided by accountants, not
drivers or engineers who actually have to *use* the things. As for
passengers, they don't even enter the consciousness of those who make
these decisions.


Once upon a time, even accountants used buses.
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Old December 5th 19, 10:21 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On 2019-11-29 12:37:00 +0000, Certes said:

On 29/11/2019 07:04, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 29/11/2019 00:21, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:


Nobody queues around here. They just stand around all over the place,
blocking the pavement, smoking or fiddling with their phones, then when
a bus arrives they all try and get on at the same time with no regard to
who was there first and never mind people getting off (we don't have
separate exit doors here, unlike London. Very few places do, never
understood why).

Exit doors cost money, take up the space of two or four seats, and run the
risk of people sneaking on without paying.


Doesn't seem to happen a lot in London, though. Centre doors seem to
have been much more of a success there than anywhere else, at least in
the UK.


Edinburgh is bringing back the system of entry door at the front and
exit door in the middle, which used to be the norm there before
single-door buses were introduced in the 1990s. It may help that
almost all routes have a flat fare regardless of distance.


At the cost, despite the new buses being longer, of reduced
pram/buggy/wheelchair space.

Sam

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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Old December 5th 19, 02:57 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Certes wrote:
On 05/12/2019 13:02, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 12:42:13 +0000, Certes wrote:

On 05/12/2019 12:29, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 11:25:00 +0000, Sam Wilson
wrote:

On 2019-11-29 12:42:44 +0000, said:

Am Freitag, 29. November 2019 13:37:04 UTC+1 schrieb Certes:
On 29/11/2019 07:04, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 29/11/2019 00:21, Recliner wrote:

Nobody queues around here. They just stand around all over the place,
blocking the pavement, smoking or fiddling with their phones, then when
a bus arrives they all try and get on at the same time with no regard to
who was there first and never mind people getting off (we don't have
separate exit doors here, unlike London. Very few places do, never
understood why).

Exit doors cost money, take up the space of two or four seats, and run
the
risk of people sneaking on without paying.

Doesn't seem to happen a lot in London, though. Centre doors seem to
have been much more of a success there than anywhere else, at least in
the UK.

Edinburgh is bringing back the system of entry door at the front and
exit door in the middle, which used to be the norm there before
single-door buses were introduced in the 1990s. It may help that
almost all routes have a flat fare regardless of distance.

Tickets do not include changes, do they?

The standard Edinburgh ticket is for a single trip on a single bus with
no changes and costs £1.70.

That's interesting: it's only £1.50 in London, and for that, you can
have unlimited changes within one hour. It also includes the tram
network.


The other option is a day ticket which
costs £4.00, so less than three single tickets, and gives unlimited
travel for the day. Going to the airport costs more.

London bus journeys are capped at £4.40, so just under three tickets.
You don't have to buy a day ticket, as the cap is applied
automatically, and of course the valid area is far larger. It doesn't
cost any extra to go to the two airports within the London bus area,
and in fact the London buses are free in and around Heathrow.

Edinburgh's buses aren't subsidised. They are required to make a profit
to pay some of the tram line's debts.


No subsidy at all?

From:
https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-19-00428/

... for financial year 2017/18, the BSOG [Bus Service Operators Grant]
payments made by Transport Scotland to Lothian Region Bus Group were
as follows:

Lothian Buses = £6,410,519.70

East Coast Buses (an entity of Lothian Buses) = £530,533,30


Thanks; that's interesting. The buses used to make a small profit,
and are about to have another £20m "dividend" siphoned off for trams.

£7m is almost 1% of what London gets (for a larger area, of course):
https://railpage.com.au/news/s/london-bus-subsidies-cost-722-million


Yes, London buses consume a large subsidy, but it doesn't come from the
government. It's a cross-subsidy from the Tube. The much-hyped Boris buses
have made it worse, being almost twice as expensive as conventional hybrid
double-deckers, heavier on fuel, and with a fare evasion problem. London
Buses would be in much better shape without them.

TfL's finances are in poor shape, partly because of the fares freeze, and
partly because of the absence of the expected revenue from Crossrail. Tens
of millions were also squandered on the mythical Garden Bridge.


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Old December 5th 19, 05:39 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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In message , at 15:57:21 on Thu, 5 Dec 2019,
Recliner remarked:

Yes, London buses consume a large subsidy, but it doesn't come from the
government. It's a cross-subsidy from the Tube. The much-hyped Boris buses
have made it worse, being almost twice as expensive as conventional hybrid
double-deckers, heavier on fuel, and with a fare evasion problem. London
Buses would be in much better shape without them.

TfL's finances are in poor shape, partly because of the fares freeze, and
partly because of the absence of the expected revenue from Crossrail. Tens
of millions were also squandered on the mythical Garden Bridge.


Boris said earlier in the election campaign he's proud of everything he
did as mayor.
--
Roland Perry


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Old December 6th 19, 10:09 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:57:21 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Yes, London buses consume a large subsidy, but it doesn't come from the
government. It's a cross-subsidy from the Tube. The much-hyped Boris buses
have made it worse, being almost twice as expensive as conventional hybrid
double-deckers, heavier on fuel, and with a fare evasion problem. London


Given even the normal hybrid buses I occasionally use only seem to switch
their diesel engines off when stopped (might as well just use a stop-start
system rather than lugging heavy batteries around) and for about 3 seconds
after pulling away I wonder who much fuel any of them really save.


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Old December 7th 19, 01:01 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:07:36 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Fri, 06 Dec 2019 15:53:11 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:09:38 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:57:21 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Yes, London buses consume a large subsidy, but it doesn't come from the
government. It's a cross-subsidy from the Tube. The much-hyped Boris buses
have made it worse, being almost twice as expensive as conventional hybrid
double-deckers, heavier on fuel, and with a fare evasion problem. London

Given even the normal hybrid buses I occasionally use only seem to switch
their diesel engines off when stopped (might as well just use a stop-start
system rather than lugging heavy batteries around)

A lot of new single-deckers have that.


Yes, I've noticed that. The system seems a bit too keen however, cutting out
the moment the bus stops which means in traffic the engine is constantly
stopping and starting.

Not IME with bus engines only stopping when the doors open but it
could vary by vehicle type.

Even though its designed for this is still can't do
the emissions any favours and I bet they have to change the starters quite
often too.

I did wonder if the usual type of starter motor engaging the flywheel
had been upgraded to something else to avoid the current pattern of
wear.
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