On 22/11/2019 14:19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:01:16 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike
for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.

A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return guards to
all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs travel
by train into London.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message , at 14:25:25 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on
strike for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.
A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return
guards to all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs
travel by train into London.

If we return to the workers' paradise that was BR in the 70's, why would
drivers, and signalmen be striking because the nationalised BR wouldn't
give them the pay rise they demanded?
--
Roland Perry

On 22/11/2019 15:37, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:25:25 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on
strikeÂ* for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.
Â*A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return
guards toÂ* all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs
travel by train into London.

If we return to the workers' paradise that was BR in the 70's, why would
drivers, and signalmen be striking because the nationalised BR wouldn't
give them the pay rise they demanded?

Stop trying to be rational, the comrades don't like it.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 15:37:21 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:25:25 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on
strike for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.
A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return
guards to all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs
travel by train into London.

If we return to the workers' paradise that was BR in the 70's, why would
drivers, and signalmen be striking because the nationalised BR wouldn't
give them the pay rise they demanded?

When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often
and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the lot
of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number of
years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its
not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and
they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic
controllers.

Thats the kind of leadership we need in this country, not the emasculated
idiots and whining women we seem to end up with now.

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 15:37:21 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:25:25 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on
strike for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.
A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return
guards to all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs
travel by train into London.

If we return to the workers' paradise that was BR in the 70's, why would
drivers, and signalmen be striking because the nationalised BR wouldn't
give them the pay rise they demanded?

When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often
and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the lot
of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number of
years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its
not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and
they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic
controllers.


Several months to train a guard and 12-18 months to train a driver; over
half of which is done on trains with other crews (training with
instructors, route learning with regular crews). Sack *everyone* at once
and you're going to find it very difficult to run any trains at all for at
least a year, and probably at least three years before you can run anything
like a full service.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 22/11/2019 20:46, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 15:37:21 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:25:25 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on
strike for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.
A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return
guards to all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs
travel by train into London.

If we return to the workers' paradise that was BR in the 70's, why would
drivers, and signalmen be striking because the nationalised BR wouldn't
give them the pay rise they demanded?

When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often
and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the lot
of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number of
years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its
not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and
they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic
controllers.


Several months to train a guard and 12-18 months to train a driver; over
half of which is done on trains with other crews (training with
instructors, route learning with regular crews). Sack *everyone* at once
and you're going to find it very difficult to run any trains at all for at
least a year, and probably at least three years before you can run anything
like a full service.


More or less what actually happened with the Air Traffic Controllers in
the States, flights were reduced by about 50% for several months and it
was 10 years before the system finally recovered, ironically after
having to introduce many of the reforms the Controllers were striking
for in the first place.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 20:46:17 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often
and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the
lot
of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number
of
years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its
not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and

they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic
controllers.


Several months to train a guard and 12-18 months to train a driver; over

It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves
having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked
vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3
days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for
braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for
for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops.
The other 17 months being required is no doubt down to antiquated union rules
that haven't changed since the victorian era.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 20:46:17 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often
and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the
lot
of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number
of
years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its
not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and

they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic
controllers.


Several months to train a guard and 12-18 months to train a driver; over

It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves
having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked
vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3
days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for
braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for
for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops.
The other 17 months being required is no doubt down to antiquated union rules
that haven't changed since the victorian era.

No, it took you 4 days to learn how to steer a bus. It takes much
longer than that to learn how to drive any road vehicle due to the
different circumstances that can be experienced. Some people never
learn.

"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that
involves
having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around
parked
vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2
or 3
days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for
braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more
weeks for
for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month
tops.

What sort of vehicles had you driven before then? Were you already used to
driving anything larger than a standard Ford Cortina size of car?

The largest vehicle I've driven was a long wheelbase Mercedes Sprinter van
(from a van hire place when we were moving house), having only driven a car
until then. Reversing it onto our drive was nerve-wracking, even with the
aid of a reversing camera: I'm so used to having the view through the rear
window via a rear-view mirror, in addition to the door mirrors. Remembering
to drive slightly beyond a right-angle turn before starting to steer, so as
to avoid clipping the kerb with the back wheels, was something I *usually*
did right but occasionally misjudged.

By the third day it held no terrors for me, and I even managed to parallel
park it (obviously in a longer slot than for my car!) on the first go -
thank goodness for the passenger door mirror, angled downwards, to see when
the rear wheel is about to touch the kerb, so as to determine when to start
steering hard right to tuck the front end in.

Driving an ordinary car felt very weird afterwards - the steering wheel felt
so high up, when I'd got used to the elbows-resting-on-my-knees position for
steering the van.



But that is nowhere near as extreme as driving a bus which is wider still
and a lot longer. If you only had prior experience of driving a car, then
I'm impressed that you passed a bus test on day 5.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 22:30:15 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 20:46:17 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too
often
and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the
lot
of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number

of
years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its
not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend
and

they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic
controllers.


Several months to train a guard and 12-18 months to train a driver; over

It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves

having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked
vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3
days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for
braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks
for
for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops.
The other 17 months being required is no doubt down to antiquated union rules
that haven't changed since the victorian era.

No, it took you 4 days to learn how to steer a bus. It takes much
longer than that to learn how to drive any road vehicle due to the
different circumstances that can be experienced. Some people never
learn.

The test for a commercial vehicle is a LOT harder than a car. You don't get
away with many mistakes and the test enviroment is a lot more varied. Kev and
Trace might scrape through driving their corsa a bit erratically on a car test
but they'd be failed in minutes on an HGV or bus test.