"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct 2020,
Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get the
discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone itself

you have to live inside the zone

the reason is that the charge is raised on all cars parked on street in the
zone, even if you don't drive anywhere that day

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 21:11:51 on Fri, 16 Oct 2020,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:06:48 on Fri, 16 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...haun-bailey-ra
lly-against-extension-of-congestion-charge-zone-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone inside
it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can walk/bus
to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal employment
with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous

That's only if you use it every day.

or if it's parked on-street

If the local councillors suggested this they would be out on their ears
at the next election

It's only because Boris is a Tory, and most of the affected LAs are
Labour/LibDem run that he has a hope of getting away with this
politically

This will be seen as the Mayor's fault,

will it?

Not convinced

so Labour will get the flack.

but it's still a bag of nonsense socially.

It's nothing to do with congestion, but simply a potential way to raise
a poll-tax the pay for TfL's huge deficit.

we know that

but why should car owners in this zone pay for it?

One reason is that they are (like it or not) under Tfl's umbrella, and so
are one of the more direct sources of income.

that's a because we can, not because we should

the original question remains.

Rather than for example imposing a council tax surcharge on everyone in
London.

Another is that if TfL has to drastically cut services it'll force more
vehicles onto the roads, inconveniencing existing motorists.

you may think that

I may think that

Non-users of PT asked to subsidise PT, don't think that

In message , at 14:17:16 on
Sat, 17 Oct 2020, Recliner remarked:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 13:59:08 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone itself

Your main home has to be in the zone to qualify, and the vehicle must
be registered with the DVLA in your name and at
the address you are using to apply for the discount. Otherwise it
wouldn't be a *residents'* discount.

OK, so the same issue applies today for people living just outside the
existing zone, as for an extended zone.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 14:51:54 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents
get the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone
itself

you have to live inside the zone

the reason is that the charge is raised on all cars parked on street in
the zone, even if you don't drive anywhere that day

Will they be doing patrols for such static cars if the zone is extended?
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 14:56:41 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 21:11:51 on Fri, 16 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:06:48 on Fri, 16 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...haun-bailey-ra
lly-against-extension-of-congestion-charge-zone-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone
inside it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they
can walk/bus to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal
employment with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous

That's only if you use it every day.

or if it's parked on-street

If the local councillors suggested this they would be out on their
ears at the next election

It's only because Boris is a Tory, and most of the affected LAs are
Labour/LibDem run that he has a hope of getting away with this
politically

This will be seen as the Mayor's fault,

will it?

Not convinced

so Labour will get the flack.

but it's still a bag of nonsense socially.

It's nothing to do with congestion, but simply a potential way to
raise a poll-tax the pay for TfL's huge deficit.

we know that

but why should car owners in this zone pay for it?

One reason is that they are (like it or not) under Tfl's umbrella,
and so are one of the more direct sources of income.

that's a because we can, not because we should

the original question remains.

Rather than for example imposing a council tax surcharge on everyone
in London.

Another is that if TfL has to drastically cut services it'll force
more vehicles onto the roads, inconveniencing existing motorists.

you may think that

I may think that

Non-users of PT asked to subsidise PT, don't think that

I note your disagreement on pretty much anything. Perhaps we can agree
that by default we disagree, and save a lot of typing?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:17:16 on
Sat, 17 Oct 2020, Recliner remarked:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 13:59:08 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone itself

Your main home has to be in the zone to qualify, and the vehicle must
be registered with the DVLA in your name and at
the address you are using to apply for the discount. Otherwise it
wouldn't be a *residents'* discount.

OK, so the same issue applies today for people living just outside the
existing zone, as for an extended zone.

No, as a glance at a map should explain to you.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:36:03 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:

"As part of temporary changes to the Congestion Charge, the
residents' discount is closed to new applicants"

...to discourage car ownership in the CC zone. I suggest they'd
never get away with that within the N/S circulars. Apart from
anything else a lot of Assembly Members (and MPs) would be clobbered.

but it's potentially being imposed upon these people by national government

the opposition parties looking for re-election locally can argue that
they have clean hands

Which will be difficult when the mayor responsible for agreeing to the
charge is from their party.

Shaun Bailey isn't mayor, and in any case, hasn't agreed to it. Sadiq Khan
certainly hasn't agreed to it. It's possible that all the TfL services
(apart from the Woolwich ferry) will close within days.

In message , at 14:49:46 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:17:16 on
Sat, 17 Oct 2020, Recliner remarked:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 13:59:08 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone itself

Your main home has to be in the zone to qualify, and the vehicle must
be registered with the DVLA in your name and at
the address you are using to apply for the discount. Otherwise it
wouldn't be a *residents'* discount.

OK, so the same issue applies today for people living just outside the
existing zone, as for an extended zone.

No, as a glance at a map should explain to you.

Why does it make a difference to the inconvenience of a zone on your
doorstep if you are living just the wrong side of Euston Road, or just
the wrong side of the North Circular?
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 14:52:18 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:36:03 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:

"As part of temporary changes to the Congestion Charge, the
residents' discount is closed to new applicants"

...to discourage car ownership in the CC zone. I suggest they'd
never get away with that within the N/S circulars. Apart from
anything else a lot of Assembly Members (and MPs) would be clobbered.

but it's potentially being imposed upon these people by national government

the opposition parties looking for re-election locally can argue that
they have clean hands

Which will be difficult when the mayor responsible for agreeing to the
charge is from their party.

Shaun Bailey isn't mayor, and in any case, hasn't agreed to it.

He won't be the one implementing it.

Sadiq Khan certainly hasn't agreed to it. It's possible that all the
TfL services (apart from the Woolwich ferry) will close within days.

That'll be fun.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:51:54 on Sat, 17 Oct 2020,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option
of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone itself

you have to live inside the zone

the reason is that the charge is raised on all cars parked on street in
the zone, even if you don't drive anywhere that day

Will they be doing patrols for such static cars if the zone is extended?

that's what they do inside now

but the huge increase in scale makes that enforcement impractical

which is what Recliner said earlier