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  #181   Report Post  
Old April 15th 21, 08:32 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 01:09:01 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On 14 Apr 2021 22:18:29 GMT, Marland
wrote:

James Heaton wrote:

"Anna Noyd-Dryver" wrote in message
...
MB wrote:
On 11/04/2021 11:56, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Hummer have already built 2 large battery SUVs. And H2 trains makes no
bloody sense whatsoever - just electric the damn lines and if its too
expensive for overhead then they should recind that moronic rule about
no more 3rd rail and lay that instead.


Health and Safety at Work Act, isn't it?


I would not have expected the H&S at Work Act to go into detail like
that.


About having exposed electro conductors at floor level?

Apparently it's something specific in electrical regulations too.

Either way, the point is that it's about staff safety not about
trespassers, as often claimed.

Electricity at Work Regulations 1989

It is mainly focused on staff safety.

Realistically the only way we're ever going to get more 3rd rail, is with
fully protected contact like the DLR - which is incompatible with existing
installations on the southern/mersey.

James



There must be some mechanism to give dispensation in some circumstances

Other wise laying down the conductor rails on the Old Dalby test track to
test the LU S Stock
could not have occurred . A lot of it on there is protected by side
protection boards but quite a lot of pictures show a lot is not,

Regulation 7 gives you the choice of insulating or taking other
precautions "so far is reasonably practicable". Old Dalby doesn't have
passengers to worry about so precautions probably rely more on
suitable fencing and appropriate training of onsite staff. There is
minimal shielding of conductor rails on LU anyway, even on new work.
snip


The reasonably practical measure taken at Old Dalby is presumably not
having staff walking at track level without an isolation.

Looking at e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9k7XvFH3pE there
isn't a lot of DC track out in the open away from the fenced off
"depot" and there is about 200y of shielding at the far end of the DC
track (about 5:12) which is rather more than usually seen at
transition points.


We will have to disagree about what “isn’t a lot is “ .

Quoting from this website.

http://www.old-dalby.com/operation.htm

“This line is now electrified with 750v DC conductor rails for
approximately 3 miles and the SSL trains are based in the compound during
the daily testing. The yard sidings at the former control centre have also
been equipped. Power for the DC line is routed from the sub-station at
Asfordby. All other functions are now conducted from the new complex at
Asfordby, and the SSL trains travel to and from Asfordby each day, hauled
by a diesel locomotive.”

GH


  #182   Report Post  
Old April 15th 21, 08:49 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default LO lines to be named

Marland wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 01:09:01 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On 14 Apr 2021 22:18:29 GMT, Marland
wrote:

James Heaton wrote:

"Anna Noyd-Dryver" wrote in message
...
MB wrote:
On 11/04/2021 11:56, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Hummer have already built 2 large battery SUVs. And H2 trains makes no
bloody sense whatsoever - just electric the damn lines and if its too
expensive for overhead then they should recind that moronic rule about
no more 3rd rail and lay that instead.


Health and Safety at Work Act, isn't it?


I would not have expected the H&S at Work Act to go into detail like
that.


About having exposed electro conductors at floor level?

Apparently it's something specific in electrical regulations too.

Either way, the point is that it's about staff safety not about
trespassers, as often claimed.

Electricity at Work Regulations 1989

It is mainly focused on staff safety.

Realistically the only way we're ever going to get more 3rd rail, is with
fully protected contact like the DLR - which is incompatible with existing
installations on the southern/mersey.

James



There must be some mechanism to give dispensation in some circumstances

Other wise laying down the conductor rails on the Old Dalby test track to
test the LU S Stock
could not have occurred . A lot of it on there is protected by side
protection boards but quite a lot of pictures show a lot is not,

Regulation 7 gives you the choice of insulating or taking other
precautions "so far is reasonably practicable". Old Dalby doesn't have
passengers to worry about so precautions probably rely more on
suitable fencing and appropriate training of onsite staff. There is
minimal shielding of conductor rails on LU anyway, even on new work.
snip


The reasonably practical measure taken at Old Dalby is presumably not
having staff walking at track level without an isolation.

Looking at e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9k7XvFH3pE there
isn't a lot of DC track out in the open away from the fenced off
"depot" and there is about 200y of shielding at the far end of the DC
track (about 5:12) which is rather more than usually seen at
transition points.


We will have to disagree about what “isn’t a lot is “ .

Quoting from this website.

http://www.old-dalby.com/operation.htm

“This line is now electrified with 750v DC conductor rails for
approximately 3 miles and the SSL trains are based in the compound during
the daily testing. The yard sidings at the former control centre have also
been equipped. Power for the DC line is routed from the sub-station at
Asfordby. All other functions are now conducted from the new complex at
Asfordby, and the SSL trains travel to and from Asfordby each day, hauled
by a diesel locomotive.”


I wonder if the 3rd/4th rails are only powered up when a DC train that
needs them is under test?
  #183   Report Post  
Old April 15th 21, 09:07 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Posts: 1
Default LO lines to be named

On 15 Apr 2021 08:32:31 GMT
Marland wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
Looking at e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9k7XvFH3pE there
isn't a lot of DC track out in the open away from the fenced off
"depot" and there is about 200y of shielding at the far end of the DC
track (about 5:12) which is rather more than usually seen at
transition points.


We will have to disagree about what “isn’t a lot is “ .

Quoting from this website.

http://www.old-dalby.com/operation.htm

“This line is now electrified with 750v DC conductor rails for
approximately 3 miles and the SSL trains are based in the compound during
the daily testing. The yard sidings at the former control centre have also
been equipped. Power for the DC line is routed from the sub-station at
Asfordby. All other functions are now conducted from the new complex at
Asfordby, and the SSL trains travel to and from Asfordby each day, hauled
by a diesel locomotive.”


Given we have Old Dalby in the UK why do so many new trains do their testing
in the Czech Republic these days? Perhaps there's an argument for one track
to be returned to being a regular railway linking Melton Mowbray and Nottingham?

  #184   Report Post  
Old April 15th 21, 09:17 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Posts: 10,122
Default LO lines to be named

In message , at 09:07:24 on Thu, 15 Apr
2021, remarked:
On 15 Apr 2021 08:32:31 GMT
Marland wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
Looking at e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9k7XvFH3pE there
isn't a lot of DC track out in the open away from the fenced off
"depot" and there is about 200y of shielding at the far end of the DC
track (about 5:12) which is rather more than usually seen at
transition points.


We will have to disagree about what “isn’t a lot is “ .

Quoting from this website.

http://www.old-dalby.com/operation.htm

“This line is now electrified with 750v DC conductor rails for
approximately 3 miles and the SSL trains are based in the compound during
the daily testing. The yard sidings at the former control centre have also
been equipped. Power for the DC line is routed from the sub-station at
Asfordby. All other functions are now conducted from the new complex at
Asfordby, and the SSL trains travel to and from Asfordby each day, hauled
by a diesel locomotive.�


Given we have Old Dalby in the UK why do so many new trains do their testing
in the Czech Republic these days? Perhaps there's an argument for one track
to be returned to being a regular railway linking Melton Mowbray and
Nottingham?


The stretch from the north end of the Old Dalby line, to Central
Nottingham, has been obliterated by various development.
--
Roland Perry
  #185   Report Post  
Old April 15th 21, 09:49 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Posts: 879
Default LO lines to be named

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:07:24 on Thu, 15 Apr
2021, remarked:
On 15 Apr 2021 08:32:31 GMT
Marland wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
Looking at e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9k7XvFH3pE there
isn't a lot of DC track out in the open away from the fenced off
"depot" and there is about 200y of shielding at the far end of the DC
track (about 5:12) which is rather more than usually seen at
transition points.


We will have to disagree about what “isn’t a lot is “ .

Quoting from this website.

http://www.old-dalby.com/operation.htm

“This line is now electrified with 750v DC conductor rails for
approximately 3 miles and the SSL trains are based in the compound during
the daily testing. The yard sidings at the former control centre have also
been equipped. Power for the DC line is routed from the sub-station at
Asfordby. All other functions are now conducted from the new complex at
Asfordby, and the SSL trains travel to and from Asfordby each day, hauled
by a diesel locomotive.�


Given we have Old Dalby in the UK why do so many new trains do their testing
in the Czech Republic these days? Perhaps there's an argument for one track
to be returned to being a regular railway linking Melton Mowbray and
Nottingham?


The stretch from the north end of the Old Dalby line, to Central
Nottingham, has been obliterated by various development.


Presumably the line closed in the first place because it wasn't heavily
used?



  #186   Report Post  
Old April 15th 21, 09:57 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jul 2019
Posts: 879
Default LO lines to be named

wrote:
On 15 Apr 2021 08:32:31 GMT
Marland wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
Looking at e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9k7XvFH3pE there
isn't a lot of DC track out in the open away from the fenced off
"depot" and there is about 200y of shielding at the far end of the DC
track (about 5:12) which is rather more than usually seen at
transition points.


We will have to disagree about what “isn’t a lot is “ .

Quoting from this website.

http://www.old-dalby.com/operation.htm

“This line is now electrified with 750v DC conductor rails for
approximately 3 miles and the SSL trains are based in the compound during
the daily testing. The yard sidings at the former control centre have also
been equipped. Power for the DC line is routed from the sub-station at
Asfordby. All other functions are now conducted from the new complex at
Asfordby, and the SSL trains travel to and from Asfordby each day, hauled
by a diesel locomotive.”


Given we have Old Dalby in the UK why do so many new trains do their testing
in the Czech Republic these days?


Siemens trains are normally tested at its test track at an old RAF base in
Wildenrath.

Old Dalby is mainly used by British-built trains from Derby and Newton
Aycliffe. For example, every S stock train had to be tested there. There is
also a planned new test track in south Wales, on a former coal mine site.
This will be used particularly by CAF.
https://gov.wales/global-centre-rail-excellence-wales



Perhaps there's an argument for one track
to be returned to being a regular railway linking Melton Mowbray and Nottingham?


No, not ony is it not needed, but you don't run service trains through a
test site.


  #187   Report Post  
Old April 15th 21, 10:10 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Posts: 349
Default LO lines to be named

Recliner wrote:
Marland wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 01:09:01 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On 14 Apr 2021 22:18:29 GMT, Marland
wrote:

James Heaton wrote:

"Anna Noyd-Dryver" wrote in message
...
MB wrote:
On 11/04/2021 11:56, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Hummer have already built 2 large battery SUVs. And H2 trains makes no
bloody sense whatsoever - just electric the damn lines and if its too
expensive for overhead then they should recind that moronic rule about
no more 3rd rail and lay that instead.


Health and Safety at Work Act, isn't it?


I would not have expected the H&S at Work Act to go into detail like
that.


About having exposed electro conductors at floor level?

Apparently it's something specific in electrical regulations too.

Either way, the point is that it's about staff safety not about
trespassers, as often claimed.

Electricity at Work Regulations 1989

It is mainly focused on staff safety.

Realistically the only way we're ever going to get more 3rd rail, is with
fully protected contact like the DLR - which is incompatible with existing
installations on the southern/mersey.

James



There must be some mechanism to give dispensation in some circumstances

Other wise laying down the conductor rails on the Old Dalby test track to
test the LU S Stock
could not have occurred . A lot of it on there is protected by side
protection boards but quite a lot of pictures show a lot is not,

Regulation 7 gives you the choice of insulating or taking other
precautions "so far is reasonably practicable". Old Dalby doesn't have
passengers to worry about so precautions probably rely more on
suitable fencing and appropriate training of onsite staff. There is
minimal shielding of conductor rails on LU anyway, even on new work.
snip


The reasonably practical measure taken at Old Dalby is presumably not
having staff walking at track level without an isolation.

Looking at e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9k7XvFH3pE there
isn't a lot of DC track out in the open away from the fenced off
"depot" and there is about 200y of shielding at the far end of the DC
track (about 5:12) which is rather more than usually seen at
transition points.


We will have to disagree about what “isn’t a lot is “ .

Quoting from this website.

http://www.old-dalby.com/operation.htm

“This line is now electrified with 750v DC conductor rails for
approximately 3 miles and the SSL trains are based in the compound during
the daily testing. The yard sidings at the former control centre have also
been equipped. Power for the DC line is routed from the sub-station at
Asfordby. All other functions are now conducted from the new complex at
Asfordby, and the SSL trains travel to and from Asfordby each day, hauled
by a diesel locomotive.”


I wonder if the 3rd/4th rails are only powered up when a DC train that
needs them is under test?


I would very much imagine so, and the OLE the same.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

  #188   Report Post  
Old April 15th 21, 10:10 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jan 2015
Posts: 349
Default LO lines to be named

wrote:
On 15 Apr 2021 08:32:31 GMT
Marland wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
Looking at e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9k7XvFH3pE there
isn't a lot of DC track out in the open away from the fenced off
"depot" and there is about 200y of shielding at the far end of the DC
track (about 5:12) which is rather more than usually seen at
transition points.


We will have to disagree about what “isn’t a lot is “ .

Quoting from this website.

http://www.old-dalby.com/operation.htm

“This line is now electrified with 750v DC conductor rails for
approximately 3 miles and the SSL trains are based in the compound during
the daily testing. The yard sidings at the former control centre have also
been equipped. Power for the DC line is routed from the sub-station at
Asfordby. All other functions are now conducted from the new complex at
Asfordby, and the SSL trains travel to and from Asfordby each day, hauled
by a diesel locomotive.”


Given we have Old Dalby in the UK why do so many new trains do their testing
in the Czech Republic these days? Perhaps there's an argument for one track
to be returned to being a regular railway linking Melton Mowbray and Nottingham?



For a start, Velim is circular, so it allows continuous testing at high
speeds, rather than changing ends every few minutes. It's got OLE
throughout (rather than only for a few miles of Old Dalby) compatible with
all major European systems, so presumably all the manufacturers already
have a contract there; in which case it makes sense to utilise the one you
already know.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velim_railway_test_circuit


Anna Noyd-Dryver

  #189   Report Post  
Old April 15th 21, 10:24 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Posts: 10,122
Default LO lines to be named

In message , at 09:49:15 on Thu, 15 Apr
2021, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:07:24 on Thu, 15 Apr
2021, remarked:
On 15 Apr 2021 08:32:31 GMT
Marland wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
Looking at e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9k7XvFH3pE there
isn't a lot of DC track out in the open away from the fenced off
"depot" and there is about 200y of shielding at the far end of the DC
track (about 5:12) which is rather more than usually seen at
transition points.


We will have to disagree about what “isn’t a lot is “ .

Quoting from this website.

http://www.old-dalby.com/operation.htm

“This line is now electrified with 750v DC conductor rails for
approximately 3 miles and the SSL trains are based in the compound during
the daily testing. The yard sidings at the former control centre have also
been equipped. Power for the DC line is routed from the sub-station at
Asfordby. All other functions are now conducted from the new complex at
Asfordby, and the SSL trains travel to and from Asfordby each day, hauled
by a diesel locomotive.�

Given we have Old Dalby in the UK why do so many new trains do their testing
in the Czech Republic these days? Perhaps there's an argument for one track
to be returned to being a regular railway linking Melton Mowbray and
Nottingham?


The stretch from the north end of the Old Dalby line, to Central
Nottingham, has been obliterated by various development.


Presumably the line closed in the first place because it wasn't heavily
used?


It was seen as needlessly duplicating the MML as a route to London (much
the same as the similar fate of the Great Central). The local commuter
traffic was negligible (no stations in the Nottingham suburbs) and for
people wanting to get to Melton, an hourly bus was deemed sufficient
(and I bet was more regular than what stopping trains it might have
replaced).
--
Roland Perry
  #190   Report Post  
Old April 15th 21, 11:52 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Apr 2021
Posts: 1
Default LO lines to be named

On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 10:17:50 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:07:24 on Thu, 15 Apr
2021, remarked:
On 15 Apr 2021 08:32:31 GMT
Marland wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
Looking at e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9k7XvFH3pE there
isn't a lot of DC track out in the open away from the fenced off
"depot" and there is about 200y of shielding at the far end of the DC
track (about 5:12) which is rather more than usually seen at
transition points.


We will have to disagree about what “isn’t a lot is “ .

Quoting from this website.

http://www.old-dalby.com/operation.htm

“This line is now electrified with 750v DC conductor rails for
approximately 3 miles and the SSL trains are based in the compound during
the daily testing. The yard sidings at the former control centre have also
been equipped. Power for the DC line is routed from the sub-station at
Asfordby. All other functions are now conducted from the new complex at
Asfordby, and the SSL trains travel to and from Asfordby each day, hauled
by a diesel locomotive.�


Given we have Old Dalby in the UK why do so many new trains do their testing
in the Czech Republic these days? Perhaps there's an argument for one track
to be returned to being a regular railway linking Melton Mowbray and
Nottingham?


The stretch from the north end of the Old Dalby line, to Central
Nottingham, has been obliterated by various development.


Ah ok. I thought there was a tunnel beyond the buffer stops at the end.
Hard to tell in google.



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