On Fri, 28 May 2004 at 21:27:33, mookie89
wrote:

What would really
help here in the USA is British style roundabouts. I love driving in your
country because the roundabouts at least keep traffic somewhat flowing as
opposed to what someone else in this thread said about waiting for signals
to change when not a cross traffic or pedestrian is in sight.

Wouldn't it, just! I would die of frustration if I had to drive in the
USA, where every single intersection, no matter how minor, has its
traffic lights..... (on ordinary streets, not motorways, of course - but
Brooklyn or New York.... yikes!).
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 9 May 2004

On Mon, 31 May 2004, Annabel Smyth wrote:

I would die of frustration if I had to drive in the USA, where every
single intersection, no matter how minor, has its traffic lights.....

That's not entirely true. There will generally not be a traffic signal at
an intersection between a major road and a minor road, although there are
exceptions in central business districts. Likewise, intersections between
two minor roads usually do not have traffic signals.

And of course, I have actually seen roundabouts in America (!).

(on ordinary streets, not motorways, of course - but Brooklyn or New
York.... yikes!).

Brooklyn is a part of New York City.
--
Michael Hoffman

"Michael Hoffman" wrote in message
news:Pine.WNT.4.58.0406010830400.2736@ZVAVZBB...
On Mon, 31 May 2004, Annabel Smyth wrote:

I would die of frustration if I had to drive in the USA, where every
single intersection, no matter how minor, has its traffic lights.....

That's not entirely true. There will generally not be a traffic signal at
an intersection between a major road and a minor road, although there are
exceptions in central business districts. Likewise, intersections between
two minor roads usually do not have traffic signals.

And of course, I have actually seen roundabouts in America (!).

(on ordinary streets, not motorways, of course - but Brooklyn or New
York.... yikes!).

Brooklyn is a part of New York City.
--
Michael Hoffman

Here in Illinois there is a specific formula for determining if/when a
traffic control is warranted, be it a stop sign, traffic signal, or simply a
yield sign. Being in a major metropolitan area - Chicago suburbs -
satisfying the requirement for X amount of traffic volume is reached fairly
quickly, it seems. Traffic signals seem to pop up like weeds, sprouting up
overnight - yes, I am exaggerating. In the northwest suburbs, there is one
traffic circle that I am aware of - been there many years. We used to go
sit and watch the fun as most people using it had not a clue what to do.
The circle is by an industrial area with many out-of-towners coming through
on a typical business day.

Interestingly enough, in a fast growing northern suburb of Indianapolis,
traffic circles are becoming quite common in new road construction. Drivers
seem a little tentative, not understanding proper traffic circle protocol,
but hopefully this will ease out and we Americans can take a lesson from our
British ancestors and keep the traffic flowing instead of sitting at a red
light wasting gasoline while absolutely no one is using the cross street.

Rich

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 13:27:40 GMT, "mookie89"
wrote:

Interestingly enough, in a fast growing northern suburb of Indianapolis,
traffic circles are becoming quite common in new road construction. Drivers
seem a little tentative, not understanding proper traffic circle protocol,
but hopefully this will ease out and we Americans can take a lesson from our
British ancestors and keep the traffic flowing instead of sitting at a red
light wasting gasoline while absolutely no one is using the cross street.

Do they not use induction loops in the US? Most major traffic-light
intersections in the UK are fitted with these, which mean that if the
direction on green is not being used, the lights can be automatically
changed as a car approaches on the other one, meaning the car will
probably only need to slow down briefly if at all.

Where you have roundabouts with unbalanced flows, it's also common for
traffic lights to be used on the roundabout to regulate traffic flow.
A roundabout only really works if the traffic flow is reasonably
balanced. This is causing problems at certain roundabouts in Milton
Keynes, which are likely to gain traffic lights and/or speed limit
reductions to try to resolve the problem.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 13:27:40 GMT, "mookie89"
wrote:

Interestingly enough, in a fast growing northern suburb of Indianapolis,
traffic circles are becoming quite common in new road construction.
Drivers
seem a little tentative, not understanding proper traffic circle
protocol,
but hopefully this will ease out and we Americans can take a lesson from
our
British ancestors and keep the traffic flowing instead of sitting at a
red
light wasting gasoline while absolutely no one is using the cross street.

Do they not use induction loops in the US? Most major traffic-light
intersections in the UK are fitted with these, which mean that if the
direction on green is not being used, the lights can be automatically
changed as a car approaches on the other one, meaning the car will
probably only need to slow down briefly if at all.

Where you have roundabouts with unbalanced flows, it's also common for
traffic lights to be used on the roundabout to regulate traffic flow.
A roundabout only really works if the traffic flow is reasonably
balanced. This is causing problems at certain roundabouts in Milton
Keynes, which are likely to gain traffic lights and/or speed limit
reductions to try to resolve the problem.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

Inductions loops, yes. But.....
Here in Illinois, IDOT (Illinois Department of Transportation) may set the
control device(s) for peak/non-peak hours. So even though there is a loop,
it may take up to two minutes to cycle through depending upon what time of
day it is. Two minutes, 120 seconds, when no one is on the cross street is,
as you know, an eternity. Another irritant is pedestrian crosswalk
lighting. My experience in the UK has been that I push the button, the
light will change at some point, then almost immediately the system begins
bleeping and the light changes again meaning there is time for a few people
to cross and traffic once again proceeds. Here in the USA, it seems that
pedestrian lights are timed assuming the slowest person on earth is
crossing. Many times one person crosses, the light continues up to 30 full
seconds and then cycles again. Again, the time seems an eternity. All this
tends to have people jumping the light or worse yet, attempting to beat the
light before it changes red thereby endangering the pedestrian. I am not
complaining per se as some sort of traffic/pedestrian control is necessary.
The point of delicate balance, though, seems elusive.

Rich

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 21:03:10 GMT, "mookie89"
wrote:

Inductions loops, yes. But.....
Here in Illinois, IDOT (Illinois Department of Transportation) may set the
control device(s) for peak/non-peak hours. So even though there is a loop,
it may take up to two minutes to cycle through depending upon what time of
day it is. Two minutes, 120 seconds, when no one is on the cross street is,
as you know, an eternity. snip

This is rather silly. Applied properly, induction loops will override
the cycle and give right of way to the road on which there are
vehicles over the one where there are not. Only if there are vehicles
on more than one of the roads feeding the junction is it necessary to
revert to a traditional pre-programmed cycle.

This kind of thing is also used to give buses priority at certain
junctions, for example. If a vehicle is detected in the bus lane, the
lights are automatically changed in its favour so it shouldn't even
need to brake. This has been going on for a while - the intersections
on the 1970s Runcorn Busway are so fitted, I believe.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 21:03:10 GMT, "mookie89"
wrote:

Inductions loops, yes. But.....
Here in Illinois, IDOT (Illinois Department of Transportation) may set
the
control device(s) for peak/non-peak hours. So even though there is a
loop,
it may take up to two minutes to cycle through depending upon what time
of
day it is. Two minutes, 120 seconds, when no one is on the cross street
is,
as you know, an eternity. snip

This is rather silly. Applied properly, induction loops will override
the cycle and give right of way to the road on which there are
vehicles over the one where there are not. Only if there are vehicles
on more than one of the roads feeding the junction is it necessary to
revert to a traditional pre-programmed cycle.

This kind of thing is also used to give buses priority at certain
junctions, for example. If a vehicle is detected in the bus lane, the
lights are automatically changed in its favour so it shouldn't even
need to brake. This has been going on for a while - the intersections
on the 1970s Runcorn Busway are so fitted, I believe.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

Silly, I agree. And very frustrating. Just last night it happened to me.
Again. I went in to the city to catch a night baseball game (Chicago Cubs,
of course) and the train got back to my community at midnight. As I pulled
up to cross the major road, my light was red but the opposing traffic had a
left turn light. I had to sit through the entire cycle which allowed a
green on the cross street but not one vehicle was there! I finally got my
green light. It would just seem that with today's technology they could do
a better job.

Also, our emergency vehicles have what's known as an OptiCon System on
board. Basically it is a very specific white high intensity strobe lamp
aimed slightly upward. At many USA intersections a little periscope
appearing apparatus is mounted just above the traffic light. That's the
OptiCon sensor. When the police car/ambulance/fire truck emits the strobe
pulse, the signals quickly favor the emergency vehicle.

Rich

mookie89 wrote:

Interestingly enough, in a fast growing northern suburb of
Indianapolis, traffic circles are becoming quite common in new road
construction. Drivers seem a little tentative, not understanding
proper traffic circle protocol, but hopefully this will ease out
and we Americans can take a lesson from our British ancestors and
keep the traffic flowing instead of sitting at a red light wasting
gasoline while absolutely no one is using the cross street.

When you think you have mastered roundabouts, have a look at my
favourite, the Magic Roundabout at Swindon:
http://www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

"Richard J." wrote in message
...
mookie89 wrote:

Interestingly enough, in a fast growing northern suburb of
Indianapolis, traffic circles are becoming quite common in new road
construction. Drivers seem a little tentative, not understanding
proper traffic circle protocol, but hopefully this will ease out
and we Americans can take a lesson from our British ancestors and
keep the traffic flowing instead of sitting at a red light wasting
gasoline while absolutely no one is using the cross street.

When you think you have mastered roundabouts, have a look at my
favourite, the Magic Roundabout at Swindon:
http://www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

OMG! I wonder what kind of, er, medicine that traffic engineer was taking
at the moment of truth. The police must have been severely....
puckered.... when they decided to let all the traffic just have at it. But
hey, if it works! Thanks for pointing this out to me. A very good British
friend of mine consults a lot in public transport, specializing in public
school transport. I'll have to ask her about this one.

Rich

"Richard J." wrote the following in:


mookie89 wrote:

Interestingly enough, in a fast growing northern suburb of
Indianapolis, traffic circles are becoming quite common in new road
construction. Drivers seem a little tentative, not understanding
proper traffic circle protocol, but hopefully this will ease out
and we Americans can take a lesson from our British ancestors and
keep the traffic flowing instead of sitting at a red light wasting
gasoline while absolutely no one is using the cross street.

When you think you have mastered roundabouts, have a look at my
favourite, the Magic Roundabout at Swindon:
http://www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm

That's amazing! I think I might have to go to Swindon just to see that.

--
message by Robin May. Inimitable, but would you want to anyway?
"GIVE IN! IT'S TIME TO GO!" - The NHS offers a high standard of care.

Kitten in Big Brother: rebel without a cause (or brain).
Spelling lesson: then and than are different words.