This happened to me last night and I was wondering if anyone
else had come across it. I was topping up my Oyster pre-pay
card at the touch-screen ticket machine at North Greenwich,
using up all the small change in my wallet. After about £7,
the machine closed the coin slot, and threw all my coins back
into the rejected coins/change tray. It sounded like I'd won
the jackpot at Las Vegas!

The message on the screen said "You have used too many coins"
(or something very similar to that).

So, I started again, but about half way through, pressed the
"Finished" button, updated my card, and then added the rest
of my coins in a second batch.

I am at a loss to explain why "too many coins" is a reason to
terminate the transaction. Surely they should be pleased that
I'm stocking up the machine's supply of small change? I wasn't
causing a delay since I had deliberately waited till my last
journey of the day before doing this. The coin box wasn't full,
because it let me add all my coins when I tried it in 2 separate
batches.

Not a major grumble, but a bit of a "head scratcher" - why was
this feature designed into the system in the first place?

Graham

"Graham Hick" wrote in message
om...
This happened to me last night and I was wondering if anyone
else had come across it. I was topping up my Oyster pre-pay
card at the touch-screen ticket machine at North Greenwich,
using up all the small change in my wallet. After about £7,
the machine closed the coin slot, and threw all my coins back
into the rejected coins/change tray. It sounded like I'd won
the jackpot at Las Vegas!

The message on the screen said "You have used too many coins"
(or something very similar to that).

So, I started again, but about half way through, pressed the
"Finished" button, updated my card, and then added the rest
of my coins in a second batch.

I am at a loss to explain why "too many coins" is a reason to
terminate the transaction. Surely they should be pleased that
I'm stocking up the machine's supply of small change? I wasn't
causing a delay since I had deliberately waited till my last
journey of the day before doing this. The coin box wasn't full,
because it let me add all my coins when I tried it in 2 separate
batches.

Not a major grumble, but a bit of a "head scratcher" - why was
this feature designed into the system in the first place?

Graham


The coins you insert don't go straight to the main coin box - they all have
to be stored temporarily somewhere so that your own coins can all be
rejected back to you if something goes wrong.

James

Graham Hick wrote:
This happened to me last night and I was wondering if anyone
else had come across it. I was topping up my Oyster pre-pay
card at the touch-screen ticket machine at North Greenwich,
using up all the small change in my wallet. After about £7,
the machine closed the coin slot, and threw all my coins back
into the rejected coins/change tray. It sounded like I'd won
the jackpot at Las Vegas!

The message on the screen said "You have used too many coins"
(or something very similar to that).

So, I started again, but about half way through, pressed the
"Finished" button, updated my card, and then added the rest
of my coins in a second batch.

I am at a loss to explain why "too many coins" is a reason to
terminate the transaction. Surely they should be pleased that
I'm stocking up the machine's supply of small change? I wasn't
causing a delay since I had deliberately waited till my last
journey of the day before doing this. The coin box wasn't full,
because it let me add all my coins when I tried it in 2 separate
batches.

But that's the coin box that holds all the coins from completed
transactions. There must also be a smaller box that temporarily holds
the coins from one transaction so that they can be returned if, for
example, the user cancels the transaction before completion. I guess
your attempt to feed £7+ of small change filled up this smaller box.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Graham Hick wrote:

This happened to me last night and I was wondering if anyone
else had come across it. I was topping up my Oyster pre-pay
card at the touch-screen ticket machine at North Greenwich,
using up all the small change in my wallet. After about £7,
the machine closed the coin slot, and threw all my coins back
into the rejected coins/change tray. It sounded like I'd won
the jackpot at Las Vegas!
....
Not a major grumble, but a bit of a "head scratcher" - why was
this feature designed into the system in the first place?

Graham

A pure guess, but maybe it has to keep the coins in a holding area in
case you press cancel, and you'd filled it up?

Colin McKenzie

"Richard J." wrote in message ...
But that's the coin box that holds all the coins from completed
transactions. There must also be a smaller box that temporarily holds
the coins from one transaction so that they can be returned if, for
example, the user cancels the transaction before completion. I guess
your attempt to feed £7+ of small change filled up this smaller box.

I suddenly realised that's probably what it was, not long after I posted
the question (isn't that always the way?).

Out of interest, does it do the same thing with notes? Or if you cancel
after putting a note in, do you get the equivalent back in random small
change? If so, it must get the change from somewhere...

In message , Graham
Hick writes

I am at a loss to explain why "too many coins" is a reason to
terminate the transaction.

The technical explanations offered are the most likely, but also
remember that if you inserted a lot of coinage you may have exceeded the
limit on legal tender (eg a vendor is not obliged to accept 70 10p coins
in receipt for a 7 pound item).

--
Paul Terry

On 7 Sep 2004 02:15:34 -0700, (Graham
Hick) wrote:

This happened to me last night and I was wondering if anyone
else had come across it. I was topping up my Oyster pre-pay
card at the touch-screen ticket machine at North Greenwich,
using up all the small change in my wallet. After about £7,
the machine closed the coin slot, and threw all my coins back
into the rejected coins/change tray. It sounded like I'd won
the jackpot at Las Vegas!
[snip]
Not a major grumble, but a bit of a "head scratcher" - why was
this feature designed into the system in the first place?

as others have said there is a holding unit called an escrow that
retains your inserted notes or coins until the transaction has fully
completed. Obviously these units have a limited capacity and your volume
of coins tripped the unit out thus returning your coins to you.

Once a transaction is successfully completed the coins are moved from
the escrow either to the vault or to the change tubes in the machine.
The machine knows how much is in each tube and what needs to be kept to
try to maintain change levels.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

The technical explanations offered are the most likely, but also
remember that if you inserted a lot of coinage you may have exceeded the
limit on legal tender (eg a vendor is not obliged to accept 70 10p coins
in receipt for a 7 pound item).

Drifting off topic here...

It is true that a vendor would not have to accept the coinage but it isn't
anything to do with legal tender. He doesn't have to accept 7 one pound
coins to pay for a 7 pound item if he doesn't want to even though it is
legal tender in the UK.

Legal tender is a means of payment that should not be refused by a creditor
to settle a debt. If you are buying a ticket, or paying for an item in a
shop there is normally no debt involved. On the other hand if, for example,
you are eating in a restaurant where you are billed at the end of your meal
then a debt is involved and legal tender should be accepted in settlement.

In message , at 19:38:01 on Tue, 7 Sep
2004, Paul Terry remarked:
The technical explanations offered are the most likely, but also
remember that if you inserted a lot of coinage you may have exceeded
the limit on legal tender (eg a vendor is not obliged to accept 70 10p
coins in receipt for a 7 pound item).

Except the legal tender rules apply only to settling debts, not to
purchases in vending machines.
--
Roland Perry

In message , Roland
Perry writes

In message , at 19:38:01 on Tue, 7 Sep
2004, Paul Terry remarked:
The technical explanations offered are the most likely, but also
remember that if you inserted a lot of coinage you may have exceeded
the limit on legal tender (eg a vendor is not obliged to accept 70 10p
coins in receipt for a 7 pound item).

Except the legal tender rules apply only to settling debts, not to
purchases in vending machines.

That is correct. But as Graham pointed out, a vendor is free to accept
or refuse coinage as he or she wishes. In the lack of any other
guidelines I have known several who use "legal tender" as their own
chosen standard, simply to save argument (and the annoyance of carrying
several kilos of change to the bank).

However, as I wrote, the capacity of the coin holding mechanism is more
likely to be the explanation.

--
Paul Terry