On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:46:46 +0100, Clive Page
wrote:

In article ,
eurostardriver writes
Kentish Town or West Hampstead provide useful interchanges onto LUL,
but some clever person has decided Thameslink services will not call
at these stations between 07.30 and 09.30 to prevent overcrowding.
Doesn't make much sense to me as this means all passengers will be
forced into the Kings Cross/St Pancras area making the overcrowding
there 3 times worse.

I quite agree: it seems quite crazy.......

Can anyone think of the real reason for this closure?

It was an LU ploy to get a larger proportion of the fares??


--
Peter Lawrence

Peter Lawrence wrote:
On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:46:46 +0100, Clive Page
wrote:


In article ,
eurostardriver writes

Kentish Town or West Hampstead provide useful interchanges onto LUL,
but some clever person has decided Thameslink services will not call
at these stations between 07.30 and 09.30 to prevent overcrowding.
Doesn't make much sense to me as this means all passengers will be
forced into the Kings Cross/St Pancras area making the overcrowding
there 3 times worse.

I quite agree: it seems quite crazy.......

Can anyone think of the real reason for this closure?

It was an LU ploy to get a larger proportion of the fares??

Hardly. Regular commuters travelling onwards from St Pancras by tube
will have a Travelcard anyway; people travelling to West Hampstead &
Kentish Town are permitted to travel in to St Pancras and return by a
northbound train during the closure.

Irregular users travelling between Thameslink and LU stations would have
to pay a higher proportion of their fare to LU by using West Hampstead
or Kentish Town as these are both in Zone 2.

I don't think LU would get a noticeably higher proportion of fares
whether West Hampstead and Kentish Town were open to southbound TL pax
or not!

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:55:59 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote:

Peter Lawrence wrote:
On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:46:46 +0100, Clive Page
wrote:


In article ,
eurostardriver writes

Kentish Town or West Hampstead provide useful interchanges onto LUL,
but some clever person has decided Thameslink services will not call
at these stations between 07.30 and 09.30 to prevent overcrowding.
Doesn't make much sense to me as this means all passengers will be
forced into the Kings Cross/St Pancras area making the overcrowding
there 3 times worse.

I quite agree: it seems quite crazy.......

Can anyone think of the real reason for this closure?

I'm not sure on the details but I think some combination of the
following might apply :-

a) increased congestion at the interchange locations and on the Jubilee
and Northern lines.
b) West Hampstead LU station is being modernised at present so
overloading an already small station which has works going on is perhaps
not the best idea.
c) a possible concern about track capacity if Thameslink trains have to
stop for much longer than normal while people change lines - St Pancras
should be better able to cope as it's the terminal.
d) as said by someone else - KX / SP has more lines to distribute the
traffic plus there is the link to the southern section of the line.

It was an LU ploy to get a larger proportion of the fares??

Hardly. Regular commuters travelling onwards from St Pancras by tube
will have a Travelcard anyway; people travelling to West Hampstead &
Kentish Town are permitted to travel in to St Pancras and return by a
northbound train during the closure.

Irregular users travelling between Thameslink and LU stations would have
to pay a higher proportion of their fare to LU by using West Hampstead
or Kentish Town as these are both in Zone 2.

No they wouldn't as single fares are interavailable south of West
Hampstead to Moorgate / London Bridge and Elephant so it's all taken
into account in the calculation of the current fares.

Travelcard revenues will come out of the revenue pool and I doubt there
will be any short term adjustment. Not sure what would happen with
Thameslink only season tickets - I don't know if they have any inter
availability or not.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:55:59 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote:
Peter Lawrence wrote:
On 9 Sep 2004 22:46:46 +0100, Clive Page wrote:
eurostardriver writes

Kentish Town or West Hampstead provide useful interchanges onto LUL,
but some clever person has decided Thameslink services will not call
at these stations between 07.30 and 09.30 to prevent overcrowding.
Doesn't make much sense to me as this means all passengers will be
forced into the Kings Cross/St Pancras area making the overcrowding
there 3 times worse.

I quite agree: it seems quite crazy.......

Can anyone think of the real reason for this closure?

I'm not sure on the details but I think some combination of the
following might apply :-

a) increased congestion at the interchange locations and on the Jubilee
and Northern lines.

I could understand this excuse if it happened in the PM peak, but not
the AM peak. LU are perfectly capable of controlling entry into the
station.

b) West Hampstead LU station is being modernised at present so
overloading an already small station which has works going on is perhaps
not the best idea.

A result of insufficient cooperation IMO - Thameslink and LU should have
got together to demand the SRA fund the hastening of those works to
finish them before the Thameslink closure.

c) a possible concern about track capacity if Thameslink trains have to
stop for much longer than normal while people change lines - St Pancras
should be better able to cope as it's the terminal.

St.Pancras shouldn't be much better able to cope as it's only the
temporary terminal, with significantly reduced capacity. Just how long
do you envisage trains stopping for at WH and KT?

d) as said by someone else - KX / SP has more lines to distribute the
traffic plus there is the link to the southern section of the line.

So many passengers would continue to use it, thus weakening the already
flimsy arguments against stopping at WH and KT.

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

Hardly. Regular commuters travelling onwards from St Pancras by tube will
have a Travelcard anyway; people travelling to West Hampstead & Kentish
Town are permitted to travel in to St Pancras and return by a northbound
train during the closure.

How nice for them, and no doubt with no compensation. When Thameslink are
having one of their days just getting into St Pancras can be fun never mind
trying to get out again as well.

This evening the stoppers seem to be starting from Kentish Town, it will be
interesting to see if the tube station does grind to a halt when the reverse
happens during the StP works.

Dave.