Dave Arquati ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might
better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to
introduce a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus
stop pull out.

Hmmm. I can foresee a slight problem with that - it won't be long
before a bus driver just pulls straight out into traffic without
looking "because they have to give way to me" and causes an accident.
With any luck, it won't be a motorbike or a bicycle that's going past
him at the time.

Although surely if this rule were the case and the bus driver had
signalled to pull out, then whoever subsequently overtakes is the one
causing the accident rather than the bus driver.

You're assuming the bus driver will signal and will pause long enough
before pulling out to allow the traffic to react to that signal.

(UM Pston) wrote in message . com...
(Matthew Church) wrote in message om...
On the road from Hook to Chessington (71 bus route) the lay-by before
the Greenfields roundabout was filled in about 6 months ago, so the 71
has nowhere to pull into (bad thing for the traffic) but OTOH nowhere
to pull out of (good thing for the 71).

Laybys are bad for the buses - having to get back into the traffic
stream delays the service and affects reliability.

People would probably be more inclined to let buses out if they knew
they weren't going to be moving at a snails pace once they've done it.
I live in a quite hilly area and the double deckers have trouble maintaining
25mph on some of these hills which have long narrow roads making overtaking
impossible. Even full laden HGVs seem to manage a better speed up the hill
than the buses. Theres probably a case for more powerful engines in the
buses but in the meantime no car driver who wants to get to their destination
some time the same day is going to let the bus out.

B2003

"Nick H (UK)" wrote in message ...
UM Pston wrote:


snip

Is the idea that anyone in future using a car will travel at the same
speed as the bus they see ahead of them?


Not everywhere, but in some places where this helps bus reliability
yes.

Widening the road sufficiently to allow overtaking the bus without a
layby might be a better solution in places where land is cheap but in
London (I've never been to Hook or Chessington mind you) it just
isn't.

And of course the widened pavements aren't going to be narrowed again to
their previous perfectly reasonable width.

I don't really see what you mean - if you widen the footway (or the
road for that matter) it is usually a permanent change.

I do feel that I would get better value for my council tax if the
department of my local council that deals with roads and pavements just
put their feet up and stopped work altogether.

It may well come to that - the amount paid out on insurance claims for
people tripping on dodgy paving slabs or driving down potholes rises
as maintenance expenditure falls.

In addition to the financial cost widening the road at almost
all points of congestion in London would mean demolishing the
buildings on one or both sides of the road. Fine if you can get a
developer to pay - they tried that in a lot of places in the 60s & 70s
but, in the long term, it didn't solve the traffic congestion.

So now they make the roads narrower. If they can't beat the 'congestion'
they might as well help cause it, I suppose :-(

Road improvements which decrease the travel-time for drivers often
fail to reduce congestion in the long term - because it enables more
people to live further awy fron their work; or travel more miles in
the business day or whatever. The 'improvement' thereby generates
more traffic. Investing in public transport infrastructure rather
than road-widening may heve the opposite effect but nobody really
knows yet because they haven't done it for long enough to prove it.
Surely it is worth a try.

People love to talk about the increase in traffic. I never hear any
statistics quoted about decrease in road space. As much as 30 to 50
percent on some roads?

A much smaller percentage if you look at the whole journey. Some
reallocation of road-space is surely needed to make bus, cycle &
pedestrian journeys safer and faster in order to reduce the growth in
car traffic. I think everybody who wants one should have (or share) a
car - but should use it less if there are viable alternatives. To
make the alternatives viable we must invest in the infrastructure they
need.

More road widening in London is just too expensive, regardless of the
environmental issues. That is why the last Conservative government
curtailed their planned road-building programme. It wasn't for
ideological reasons - they just couldn't afford it.

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...
Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might
better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to introduce
a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus stop pull
out.

Such a rule would never be safe. A decision to allow a bus to pull out
should be based upon a range of factors:-
(i) How close is the vehicle behind?
(ii) Would you have to brake hard? (dangerous in wet conditions)
(iii) Is there a cyclist near you?
(iv) Is there a gap behind that the bus could easily fit into with minimal
delay to the traffic flow as a whole?
(v) Is the bus going to attempt to cross more than just your own lane?
(vi) Is the bus going to pull out at all? (The right-turn indication on a
bus is a problem issue because you don't know if he's actually intending to
change lanes or merely start moving in his existing lane, and can't tell
because the bus blocks out the forward view).

Furthermore, such a rule would simply give the many incompetent bus-drivers
that unfortunately exist in London even more mis-placed authority to pull
out when not appropriate/safe, which would be highly dangerous for
everybody.

Apart from these issues, I don't really see why buses should have priority
over other traffic, but then I never travel by bus and hopefully will never
need to.

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...
Although surely if this rule were the case and the bus driver had
signalled to pull out, then whoever subsequently overtakes is the one
causing the accident rather than the bus driver.

So at what point does it become the fault of the overtaker? A slow-moving
cyclist could take quite a few seconds to pass a stopped bus, and what if
the bus starts indicating just as the bike has passed the rear indicator?

Dave Arquati wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 3 Oct 2004:

Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might
better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to introduce a
rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus stop pull out.
Unfortunately I suspect the problem would be enforcement - on-bus
cameras might be an option, but they're expensive and it's another thing
for the driver to worry about.

I thought this already was the rule?
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 26 September 2004

Annabel Smyth wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 3 Oct 2004:

Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might
better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to
introduce a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a
bus stop pull out. Unfortunately I suspect the problem would be
enforcement - on-bus cameras might be an option, but they're
expensive and it's another thing for the driver to worry about.

I thought this already was the rule?

It's Highway Code advice, but not compulsory.

"198. *Buses, coaches and trams.* Give priority to these vehicles when
you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from
stops."

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

I can confirm I have been on the wrong side of a bus when the driver decided
that he would just pull out. it was on a wide road in London, where I would
have had enough space to overtake a "normal" road vehicle which would have
been pulling out from the same spot. However, the bus decided it would
indicate and, simultaneously, pull out right into the side of my car.
Luckily only minor scratches were obtained, but it could easily have been
much worse if, as you state, My car were a bicycle or motorbike!

Current government policy is to stop Londoners from enjoying the roads as we
should, and instead they are forcing everybody to travel on the HIGHLY
inadequate public transport. I am sure it will not be long before TfL is
taken to the EU Court of Human Rights by someone who feels they have the
right to choose comfort over bus


"Adrian" wrote in message
. 1.4...
Dave Arquati ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were
saying :

Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might
better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to introduce
a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus stop pull
out. Unfortunately I suspect the problem would be enforcement - on-bus
cameras might be an option, but they're expensive and it's another thing
for the driver to worry about.

Hmmm. I can foresee a slight problem with that - it won't be long before a
bus driver just pulls straight out into traffic without looking "because
they have to give way to me" and causes an accident. With any luck, it
won't be a motorbike or a bicycle that's going past him at the time.

"Philip Mason" wrote in message
...
I can confirm I have been on the wrong side of a bus when the driver
decided that he would just pull out. it was on a wide road in London,
where I would have had enough space to overtake a "normal" road vehicle
which would have been pulling out from the same spot. However, the bus
decided it would indicate and, simultaneously, pull out right into
the side of my car. Luckily only minor scratches were obtained, but
it could easily have been much worse if, as you state, My car were
a bicycle or motorbike!

Of course, one of these "trained professionals" recently did the self-same
thing on Blackfriars Bridge. He either didn't bother to look for the bicycle
on his right, or didn't care. Either way, the cyclist was killed.

In message , at 17:11:01 on Tue, 5 Oct
2004, Philip Mason remarked:
Current government policy is to stop Londoners from enjoying the roads as we
should, and instead they are forcing everybody to travel on the HIGHLY
inadequate public transport. I am sure it will not be long before TfL is
taken to the EU Court of Human Rights by someone who feels they have the
right to choose comfort over bus

A bit of a London-centric view, that. People outside the M25 would kill
to get a public transport service a tenth as good as that inside.
--
Roland Perry