"Mike Hughes" wrote in message
...
In message ,
Martin Underwood writes
"Mike Hughes" wrote in message
...
In message ,
Martin Underwood writes
What precisely is the difference between a taxi and a minicab? Do
minicabs
have to carry a licensing plate (quoting registration number and maximum
number of occupants) like taxis do? How does a user know whether he's
getting into a taxi or a minicab?


Thanks for this very detailed and informative answer.


Let's deal with London first.

London's taxis have to comply with the PCO's 'Conditions of Fitness' to
be licensed as a taxi. The one that most people will know about is the
25ft turning circle - ideal for getting through some of the narrow
streets in the City and also for making U turns. This is why they are of
a specific shape and size and what makes them unique.

The turning circle of TX1 black cabs is incredibly small - makes me wonder
why all cars of an equivalent size aren't designed with similar turning
circles. Are they front or rear wheel drive? If they are FWD, the universal
joints in the drive-shafts must take some hammering when the taxi is on full
lock. I was caught out by a taxi's turning circle the other day: I was
passing a taxi rank and a taxi signalled to pull away, so I flashed him to
let him out, expecting him to move into the space ahead of me; instead he
did a U turn in front in me - quite legally, but I wasn't expecting it
(there was no way he'd have been able to do so in an ordinary car) and I had
to brake because he then blocked the road until the traffic in the other
direction let him in.

They must have an approved meter which is sealed by the PCO. They have
the right to 'ply for hire' (with a lighted sign on the roof) either on
the street or at authorised taxi ranks. The driver must have been police
(now CRB) checked, medically fit, of good character and have passed the
'knowledge' of London which takes on average 3 years.[1]

Do any other cities require their licensed taxi drivers to display a similar
level of 'knowledge'? I suppose the real skill comes when you know the
sensible diversionary routes between any two places as well as just the
shortest one so you can avoid traffic hold-ups. I remember when I saw Jack
Rosenthal's "The Knowledge" being surprised at how large an area was
included - not just central London.

'Minicabs' were, until recently (2001 I believe) totally unlicensed
vehicles. There was no regulation of them and the drivers would often
not have insurance. Many of the drivers had criminal convictions. There
was in one year (2003) 233 cases of indecent assault and 54 rapes
*reported*. It is believed that the true figure is at least five times
those numbers as many victims do not report the assaults/rapes.

As shown on many of the indecent assault or rape cases featured on
Crimewatch: many of them involve(d) young women getting into unlicensed
minicabs - or even private cars that they *think* are minicabs.

Minicab licensing started with the companies, who were first to be
registered, then with the drivers and now (since June 2004) the
vehicles. I know of one minicab firm who lost 21 out of a total of 140
drivers when licensing became effective in 2003. Apparently the reasons
given included questionable immigration status, criminal records and
income tax status!

Since licensing has taken place, the new 'Private Hire' minicabs are
having to pay better rates to retain or recruit licensed drivers. This,
coupled with other costs associated with licensing means that most have
raised their prices considerably. In fact many minicabs are more
expensive that the traditional taxi (known as 'black cabs') !!

I hadn't realised that minicabs and taxis charged different rates: I assumed
that they were required to charge the same.

Private Hire vehicles in London are identified by a yellow disc with a
diamond shaped licence which is displayed on the front and rear window
of the vehicle. (too small to be read unless you're standing less than 2
ft from the vehicle). They cannot ply for hire and *must* be pre-booked.
Many still pick up from the streets, and in these cases their insurance
immediately becomes invalid, no matter if they have one which covers
'for hire and reward' as the insurance is only valid for pre-booked
jobs.

I've always wondered why the pre-booked-only rule applies. Is it to avoid
minicabs taking away business from taxis or is there another reason?

"Mike Hughes" wrote in message
...

Let's deal with London first.

They must have an approved meter which is sealed by
the PCO. They have the right to 'ply for hire' (with a
lighted sign on the roof) either on
the street or at authorised taxi ranks.

i.e. *moving* on the street or parked at ranks. Taxis are not allowed to ply
for hire parked at a random spot, even if there are no parking restrictions
at that spot. I can't think why. It seems bizarre that a taxi driver can
park outside the cinema for 2 hours and watch the film, but if he rushes out
the second the film is over and puts his light on, and waits while the crowd
emerges from the cinema, he can be busted.

The driver must have been police (now CRB) checked,
medically fit, of good character and have passed the
'knowledge' of London which takes on average 3 years.[1]

As you know, Mike, you are describing the "Green Badge" knowledge which
gives the right to ply for hire anywhere in Greater London, including
Heathrow. Outer London (excluding Heathrow) is also divided into 9 "Yellow
Badge" knowledge sectors which each give the right to ply for hire in a few
boroughs. The Yellow Badge knowledge takes considerably less time to
complete than the Green Badge. Although Green Badge drivers are allowed to
sit at Outer London ranks, they rarely do, because it is more lucrative to
head back into the centre.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"Brimstone" wrote:
Indeed they are. There was a case highlighted in the press a number of years
ago when motorcycle couriers from one of the major companys were knicked for
being in one of the parks. The riders were wearing printed reflective
tabards and had the usual stickers. A couple of the bosses decided to go
horse riding in the royal parks, wearing the comnpanys printed tabard etc.

A horse is not a vehicle so plod couild do nothing.

Point of order: Regulation 4(8) - prohibits anyone from "exhibit any notice or
advertisement or any other written or pictorial matter" without permission.
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1997/97163901.htm

Basically if it's fun, you can't do it in a Royal Park.


Matt Ashby
www.mattashby.com

In message ,
Martin Underwood writes
Thanks for this very detailed and informative answer.



The turning circle of TX1 black cabs is incredibly small - makes me wonder
why all cars of an equivalent size aren't designed with similar turning
circles. Are they front or rear wheel drive?

Rear wheel drive with 'old fashioned' steering boxes to get the 25ft
turning circle. It's one of the parts that the vehicle examiners look
very closely at - any wear and the vehicle is failed.

If they are FWD, the universal
joints in the drive-shafts must take some hammering when the taxi is on full
lock. I was caught out by a taxi's turning circle the other day: I was
passing a taxi rank and a taxi signalled to pull away, so I flashed him to
let him out, expecting him to move into the space ahead of me; instead he
did a U turn in front in me - quite legally, but I wasn't expecting it
(there was no way he'd have been able to do so in an ordinary car) and I had
to brake because he then blocked the road until the traffic in the other
direction let him in.

They must have an approved meter which is sealed by the PCO. They have
the right to 'ply for hire' (with a lighted sign on the roof) either on
the street or at authorised taxi ranks. The driver must have been police
(now CRB) checked, medically fit, of good character and have passed the
'knowledge' of London which takes on average 3 years.[1]

Do any other cities require their licensed taxi drivers to display a similar
level of 'knowledge'? I suppose the real skill comes when you know the
sensible diversionary routes between any two places as well as just the
shortest one so you can avoid traffic hold-ups. I remember when I saw Jack
Rosenthal's "The Knowledge" being surprised at how large an area was
included - not just central London.

There are many licensing areas that require a knowledge test. Brighton &
Hove requires you to give the start and finish roads of any road the
examiner asks. Pass mark is 67% out of 60+ questions.


As shown on many of the indecent assault or rape cases featured on
Crimewatch: many of them involve(d) young women getting into unlicensed
minicabs - or even private cars that they *think* are minicabs.

If only they'd heed the warning but of course it won't happen to them !


I hadn't realised that minicabs and taxis charged different rates: I assumed
that they were required to charge the same.

Taxis are highly regulated. Until recently minicabs had no regulation.
Even now there is no regulation of the fares that they charge.

Private Hire vehicles in London are identified by a yellow disc with a
diamond shaped licence which is displayed on the front and rear window
of the vehicle. (too small to be read unless you're standing less than 2
ft from the vehicle). They cannot ply for hire and *must* be pre-booked.
Many still pick up from the streets, and in these cases their insurance
immediately becomes invalid, no matter if they have one which covers
'for hire and reward' as the insurance is only valid for pre-booked
jobs.

I've always wondered why the pre-booked-only rule applies. Is it to avoid
minicabs taking away business from taxis or is there another reason?

Not to avoid them taking the business, but the theory is that, being pre
booked they have time to look up the start and finish of a job before
they get there so do not need the same level of knowledge that a taxi
requires.

Strangely enough, although all London taxi *have* to be wheelchair
accessible, minicabs do no have to be.

--
Mike Hughes
A Taxi driver licensed for London and Brighton
at home in Tarring, West Sussex, England

Matt Ashby wrote:
"Brimstone" wrote:
Indeed they are. There was a case highlighted in the press a number
of years ago when motorcycle couriers from one of the major companys
were knicked for being in one of the parks. The riders were wearing
printed reflective tabards and had the usual stickers. A couple of
the bosses decided to go horse riding in the royal parks, wearing
the comnpanys printed tabard etc.

A horse is not a vehicle so plod couild do nothing.

Point of order: Regulation 4(8) - prohibits anyone from "exhibit any
notice or advertisement or any other written or pictorial matter"
without permission. http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1997/97163901.htm

Basically if it's fun, you can't do it in a Royal Park.


Clarification: The event related ocurred long before 1997. In fact, before
1987.

Martin Underwood ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

The turning circle of TX1 black cabs is incredibly small - makes me
wonder why all cars of an equivalent size aren't designed with similar
turning circles. Are they front or rear wheel drive?

RWD. They're ridiculously low-tech underneath.

I've always wondered why the pre-booked-only rule applies. Is it to
avoid minicabs taking away business from taxis or is there another
reason?

In part, you answered it earlier... Ring 'em, and you've got a reasonable
certainty that what turns up is a real one.

As shown on many of the indecent assault or rape cases featured on
Crimewatch: many of them involve(d) young women getting into
unlicensed minicabs - or even private cars that they *think* are
minicabs.

"Mike Hughes" wrote in message
...

I've always wondered why the pre-booked-only
rule applies. Is it to avoid minicabs taking away
business from taxis or is there another reason?

Not to avoid them taking the business, but the theory
is that, being pre booked they have time to look up
the start and finish of a job before they get there so
do not need the same level of knowledge that a taxi
requires.

I think another motive might be to prevent minicab drivers preying on
tourists, who have no idea how much they should be paying to get from A to
B.

In message , John Rowland
writes
"Mike Hughes" wrote in message
...

I've always wondered why the pre-booked-only
rule applies. Is it to avoid minicabs taking away
business from taxis or is there another reason?

Not to avoid them taking the business, but the theory
is that, being pre booked they have time to look up
the start and finish of a job before they get there so
do not need the same level of knowledge that a taxi
requires.

I think another motive might be to prevent minicab drivers preying on
tourists, who have no idea how much they should be paying to get from A to
B.

Strangely enough, although all London taxi *have*
to be wheelchair accessible, minicabs do no have to be.

This isn't so strange - minicabs are pre-booked, so any disabled passenger
can demand a wheelchair accessible vehicle when they book.

Fine in theory but there is no legal requirement for PH vehicles to
provide the service - unlike taxis.


--
Mike Hughes
A Taxi driver licensed for London and Brighton
at home in Tarring, West Sussex, England

"Mike Hughes" wrote in message
...

There are many licensing areas that require a
knowledge test. Brighton & Hove requires you
to give the start and finish roads of any road the
examiner asks. Pass mark is 67% out of 60+
questions.

That sounds like you could do it just by reading an A-Z.

Tynedale, which is the largest council by area in England (about 1.5 times
the size of Greater London), is currently introducing a London-style
knowledge.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In message , John Rowland
writes
"Mike Hughes" wrote in message
...

There are many licensing areas that require a
knowledge test. Brighton & Hove requires you
to give the start and finish roads of any road the
examiner asks. Pass mark is 67% out of 60+
questions.

That sounds like you could do it just by reading an A-Z.

Except they ask you the one way streets and when you come to do your
driving test you have to take the examiners (hackney carriage officers)
over at least 5 routes without reference to any maps - that sorts out
the ones who have been out and those that haven't :-)

Tynedale, which is the largest council by area in England (about 1.5 times
the size of Greater London), is currently introducing a London-style
knowledge.

It's interesting to know that. I'm currently conducting some research on
the numbers of drivers within the trade nationally, both taxi and PH.
One respondent has suggested that numbers may be falling due to the fact
that standards have risen. Until I've got figures I can't substantiate
his remark, but my gut feeling is that he is correct.


--
Mike Hughes
A Taxi driver licensed for London and Brighton
at home in Tarring, West Sussex, England