Yes, Southern has started refurbing the 455s. I was on one the other
day from Mitcham Jct to Ewell E. Very nice job. High-backed seats, but
sadly still 3+2.

Mike Bristow wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

In article ,
Mrs Redboots wrote:
Also there are Class 313s at Clapham Jn (Silverlink metro trains at
Platform 2) - these are very similar to 315s, but can run on the third
rail as well as overhead power supply.

I think I knew that, but never actually noticed it! (I've been on those
trains occasionally).

The change power at a stop. When they go from 3rd rail to overhead,
you can just hear the "thunk" of the pan hitting the wires. I
/think/ the lights brighten just a little, too.

Yeah, that bit I knew - I've been on the 319s of Thameslink often
enough, and on Eurostar, too. But I hadn't realised the trains that I
occasionally catch between West Brompton & Clapham Junctions weren't the
usual Southern ones - and the Silverlink ones are so similar that I
never noticed *that*, either!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 12 December 2004

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:46:15 +0000, Mrs Redboots
wrote:

Yeah, that bit I knew - I've been on the 319s of Thameslink often
enough, and on Eurostar, too. But I hadn't realised the trains that I
occasionally catch between West Brompton & Clapham Junctions weren't the
usual Southern ones - and the Silverlink ones are so similar that I
never noticed *that*, either!

If you only catch them between West Brompton and CLapham Junction you
won't have noticed the power change - it's further north. The
Silverlink trains on that route are 313s; Southern used to use 319s
(like Thameslink) that way as they can use both power supplies, but I
believe they use Electrostars now.

Bob Wood wrote:
In ,
Henry Law typed:

Bob Wood wrote:

In ,
Mrs Redboots typed:



Yesterday I travelled by train from Streatham Common to Clapham
Junction, and, later in the day, from Putney to Clapham Junction.

The unusual thing about both journeys were that in both cases a
slam-door train was provided: a VEP on the Southern service and a
CEP on the South-West Trains one.

I wonder how rare such a thing is nowadays, when most trains are at
least 315s, if not something more modern?



How many 315s have you seen at Clapham Junction?



313s are much the same



But don't do any journeys from Streatham Common or Putney.




Bob



Some SWT class 455s have a 508 class trailer

Henry Law

In article ,
(1577+2260) wrote:

The South West Trains and South Central inner suburban trains: Class
455. These are similar to 315 but run on 3rd rail and are a bit newer.

In fact, apart from the ex-class 508 trailers in some class 455 units the
455s are rather different from the 313 etc classes. 317s & 455s have mark
3 style steel bodies whereas classes 313/4/5/6/507/8 have aluminium bodies
like the PEPs which were their prototypes.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

I was amused to read, at CJ, that Southern are bringing in a new fleet
of suburban trains, since I was on one that was older than any..... and
my mother, who was with me, commented on how much more comfortable the
CEP was than the new train which had brought her up from Arundel earlier
in the day! How true....

I think this has been commented on befo as cars become ever queiter and
more comfortable, trains are, in a manner of speaking, travelling in exactly
the opposite direction.

S R

On 16 Dec 2004, James wrote:

Yes, Southern has started refurbing the 455s. I was on one the other day
from Mitcham Jct to Ewell E. Very nice job. High-backed seats, but sadly
still 3+2.

Are new trains 2+2, then? Surely 3+2 is the best arrangement for trains on
inner suburban services; they seat 25% more people than 2+2s. AIUI, in
2+2, the width gained from liquidating the fifth seat goes into making the
four survivors wider, not providing more room the aisle, so it's not as if
you get more standing passengers in return.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance - i live in tubeland, and before that,
Hackney, manor of the 315.

tom

--
How's it going to end?

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 23:20:09 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On 16 Dec 2004, James wrote:

Yes, Southern has started refurbing the 455s. I was on one the other day
from Mitcham Jct to Ewell E. Very nice job. High-backed seats, but sadly
still 3+2.

Are new trains 2+2, then?

South West Trains is refurbishing its 455s with 2+2 seating; there are
some pictures at
http://www.swtrains.co.uk/aboutus/newsreports.asp?ArticleID=298.
There's also some longitudinal seating, providing more standing space.
3+2 seats are often seen as being too narrow, meaning the extra seats
often aren't used efficiently.

In article
"Tom Anderson" writes:

On 16 Dec 2004, James wrote:

Yes, Southern has started refurbing the 455s. I was on one the other day
from Mitcham Jct to Ewell E. Very nice job. High-backed seats, but sadly
still 3+2.

Are new trains 2+2, then? Surely 3+2 is the best arrangement for trains on
inner suburban services; they seat 25% more people than 2+2s. AIUI, in
2+2, the width gained from liquidating the fifth seat goes into making the
four survivors wider, not providing more room the aisle, so it's not as if
you get more standing passengers in return.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance - i live in tubeland, and before that,
Hackney, manor of the 315.

Unless the 315 has a different seating layout from a 313 you should have
noticed what is wrong with 3+2 seating on inner-suburban services when
more than a few people are standing. Unlike older stock there is no room
to stand between transverse seats leaving only the doorway area and the
central gangway available; where stops are frequent, a great deal of time
is wasted by passengers just getting to and from the doors. With 2+2
seating there is more gangway room allowing easier movement to/from seats
and providing less encouragement to stand in doorways. The layout would
be further improved if the seats immediately adjacent to the doors were
replaced with longitudinal seats to increase the standing room.
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson: | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 23:20:09 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On 16 Dec 2004, James wrote:

Yes, Southern has started refurbing the 455s. I was on one the other day
from Mitcham Jct to Ewell E. Very nice job. High-backed seats, but sadly
still 3+2.

Are new trains 2+2, then? Surely 3+2 is the best arrangement for trains on
inner suburban services; they seat 25% more people than 2+2s.

The snag is, within the British loading gauge(s) in reality they
don't.

AIUI, in
2+2, the width gained from liquidating the fifth seat goes into making the
four survivors wider, not providing more room the aisle, so it's not as if
you get more standing passengers in return.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance - i live in tubeland, and before that,
Hackney, manor of the 315.

The refurbed SWT 455s are 2+2 with more standing space, the Southern
ones are still 3+2. The problem with 3+2 is that the middle seat only
provides theoretical extra seating capacity. Unless one happens to be
on a train full of children or under-fed midgets the middle seat is
all but unusable. Many people would rather have decent standing room
than cramped standing space and a view of half a seat just visible
between the two seated passengers!
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK