On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Malcolm & Nika wrote:

New Vic line trains will have smaller wheels....the disabled acces wasn't a
reason though....makes it bigger inside.

Is that true? I know it was mooted for the Space Train, but i hadn't heard
anything about it actually happening on the Movias.

tom

--
Fitter, Happier, More Productive.

In article , Richard J.
wrote:
Michael Bell wrote:
In article , Malcolm & Nika
wrote:
New Vic line trains will have smaller wheels....the disabled
acces wasn't a reason though....makes it bigger inside.

Whatever the reasons, does it lower the floor to
normal/standard/traditional platform level?

Since the current Victoria Line trains have the floor at the same level
as the platform, I'm not sure why you think "normal/standard/traditional"
level should be lower than that.

Yes, I had forgotten that the Victoria line (the newest wholly new line on
the system and 40 years old, God save us!) is more modern and different to
the rest. But it is true that in the rest of the system the floor is
significantly above the platform. There seems to be a traditional preference
for it. After a real rolling-in-the-gutter fight the Tyne-Wear Metro was
set up with platform and floor LEVEL, but a step is beginning to appear,
since the platforms have not been lowered, presumably as a result of tamping
up the track.


Incidentally, either your computer's clock is slow or your ISP is
delaying your posts.

My computer clock is not slow, and I have suspected my ISP of delay before,
on incoming posts.

Michael Bell

--

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:44:47 -0500, Zermut
wrote:

Lowering the floor on the tube stock and using smaller wheels is dumb,
unrealistic and unworkable.

Why? Low-floor multiple units operate throughout Europe - some with
floors as low as a foot or so above rail level. Even the low-floor
bus is a recent invention (last 10 years or so).

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

The only option would make the platforms level with the train doors,
instead of stepping up or stepping down. If you look at the tube
system in Toronto, Canada (Metropolitan Line type stock), the
platforms are level with the train doors and floors to enable
wheelchair users to roll on and off.

Actually, the platforms in Toronto are level with the train floors
because once you're going to have high platforms at all, that's the
obvious way to do it. They've been like that since the subway opened
in 1954, long before wheelchair access was considered an issue.

I've never understood why it was considered acceptable in London to
do it otherwise (except where tube and subsurface stock share the same
platform face, of course). Even if train floor heights have changed
over the years, it should have been possible to raise either the
platform level or the track level as appropriate to restore proper
alignment... one would think.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Men! Give them enough rope and they'll dig
| their own grave." -- EARTH GIRLS ARE EASY

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 05:27:27 -0000, (Mark Brader) wrote:

I've never understood why it was considered acceptable in London to
do it otherwise (except where tube and subsurface stock share the same
platform face, of course). Even if train floor heights have changed
over the years, it should have been possible to raise either the
platform level or the track level as appropriate to restore proper
alignment... one would think.

It's probably nothing more than the fact that, on the big railway,
platform height is typically 6 inches to a foot below train floor
height (depending on the stock and the station), so the Tube did the
same.

Might also be a loading gauge thing - most British (non-Tube) stock
tapers in at platform level, but is wider above it.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Zermut wrote:
wrote:
"Michael Bell" wrote...
Boltar wrote:
Michael Bell wrote:

There is (or maybe was) a project to lower the floors of new tube
stock and/or maybe only the trailers of existing stock by redesign
and fitting smaller wheels - only fitting smaller wheels in the case
of existing stock - to allow wheelchair access, and much more
commerically important, though with no legal need, to make it easier
to use children's pushchairs and shopping trolleys.

Can't see how they'd do it. Theres little enough room under the floors
for the equipment as it is.

For new stock it shouldn't be too hard - power electronic equipment is
continually getting smaller, and the possibility of articulated trains
provides more opportunities. The existing stock is an example of very
bad design - the Northern line trains have HIGHER floors than the stock
they replace, and yet the seats are nowhere near the walls, so capacity
is limited.

I've seen drawings of the proposals. I must look for the book I saw it
in. If you do this only on trailer cars, smaller wheels are not a
problem. It would be quite enough for wheelchair, pushchair and
shopping trolley access to have only half the vehicles with
platform-level floors, and well distributed along the length of the
train. But the plan was for the WHOLE train be lowered in new stock.

ITYM lower. To be lowered they would have to have high floors first!

Also , what happens at stations where the platform is already at the
level of or higher than the trains floor such as the new section of
the jubilee line , the bakerloo north of queens park, some on the
piccadily etc..?

Ah yes. There is indeed a problem.

No it isn't! There's no rule that says all lines must use stock of the
same floor height. Jubilee and Piccadilly trains would have higher
floors than Victoria Line trains etc.

There's only a problem where trains of different floor height use the
same platforms: Rayners Lane to Uxbridge, and the Bakerloo beyond QP.

But you notice that after a burst of
enthusiasm for raised platforms, things have gone quiet. Second thoughts?
Investigations into other possibilities?

Or alternatively, an appraisal of the system followed by an understanding of
the possibilities?

The only option would make the platforms level with the train doors,
instead of stepping up or stepping down. If you look at the tube
system in Toronto, Canada (Metropolitan Line type stock), the
platforms are level with the train doors and floors to enable
wheelchair users to roll on and off. That is why the tube stock and
surface stock in London needs to have the platforms raised to be level
with the train doors and floors to enable wheelchair users to roll on
and off.

And you can do that on every station at the DLR and a few on the Tube,
but extending this to the whole Tube network would not be so easy. The
trouble is that making it level would not make it RORO - there's this
big gap to mind...

Lowering the floor on the tube stock and using smaller wheels is dumb,
unrealistic and unworkable.

Do you have proof it can't be done? I suspect it can't, but your claim
is meaningless without evidence.

Smaller wheels are on as far as i know....
As for less seats, thats gauranteed.
The lower floor wil improve the ambience. More spacious. All LUL has an
ambience rating, even the dingiest station gets an ambience rating.

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Malcolm & Nika wrote:

New Vic line trains will have smaller wheels....the disabled acces wasn't
a
reason though....makes it bigger inside.

Is that true? I know it was mooted for the Space Train, but i hadn't heard
anything about it actually happening on the Movias.

tom

--
Fitter, Happier, More Productive.

In article , (Mark Brader)
wrote:

The only option would make the platforms level with the train doors,
instead of stepping up or stepping down. If you look at the tube
system in Toronto, Canada (Metropolitan Line type stock), the
platforms are level with the train doors and floors to enable
wheelchair users to roll on and off.

Actually, the platforms in Toronto are level with the train floors
because once you're going to have high platforms at all, that's the
obvious way to do it. They've been like that since the subway opened
in 1954, long before wheelchair access was considered an issue.

I've never understood why it was considered acceptable in London to
do it otherwise (except where tube and subsurface stock share the same
platform face, of course). Even if train floor heights have changed
over the years, it should have been possible to raise either the
platform level or the track level as appropriate to restore proper
alignment... one would think.

It's completely illogical. I was surprised to find the platforms adjusted
to 1973 stock floor height at places like Hounslow East yet /below/ train
floor level at Baron's Court (!). I appreciate that there are problems at
platforms served by both tube and surface stock but why raise the
Piccadilly track level so much at Baron's Court?

--
Colin Rosenstiel