Sunday was COLD and very wet.

After waiting over 10 minutes at a bus stop close to home, the 302
driver (Metroline) tells me there is no ramp on the bus. As we are
freezing and I can do a few steps, I climb onto the bus.

On our return, we opt to take the 32 (Metroline again) north from
Kilburn as there was no Jubilee Line beyond Wembley Park.

I sat in the chair waiting for the bus. When it came, the driver did not
offer use of the ramp and my partner struggled to push me through the
front doors. At Cricklewood Bus Garage, we were instructed to alight and
join another bus, which was driven by the same driver. Again, there was
neither offer of a ramp or any mention of one. The same was true when we
alighted at Burnt Oak.

Do we have to demand a ramp?
My partner looks young and fit.

I've not had this problem when my I'm out with my septuagenarian mother.

I suspect the drivers are reluctant to deploy the ramps...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

On Nov 20, 9:52 pm, Helen Deborah Vecht
wrote:
Sunday was COLD and very wet.

After waiting over 10 minutes at a bus stop close to home, the 302
driver (Metroline) tells me there is no ramp on the bus.

I can only speak about a bus route near to me, the 152.
About 5 years ago this was called a wheelchair-friendly route; in fact
there were two buses out of about 10 that had 'the ramp'.
In general people were unlucky in catching those elusive wheelchair-
friendly buses, but they were there!
It was a bit snidey at the time, but I think nearly all the 152 buses
are WF now.

Offramp typed


On Nov 20, 9:52 pm, Helen Deborah Vecht
wrote:
Sunday was COLD and very wet.

After waiting over 10 minutes at a bus stop close to home, the 302
driver (Metroline) tells me there is no ramp on the bus.

I can only speak about a bus route near to me, the 152.
About 5 years ago this was called a wheelchair-friendly route; in fact
there were two buses out of about 10 that had 'the ramp'.
In general people were unlucky in catching those elusive wheelchair-
friendly buses, but they were there!
It was a bit snidey at the time, but I think nearly all the 152 buses
are WF now.

According to TfL's website, ALL buses are now supposed to be wheelchair
accessible, apart from the 'heritage' Routemasters...

....unless I misread the website.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

In article ,
(Helen Deborah Vecht) wrote:

Sunday was COLD and very wet.

After waiting over 10 minutes at a bus stop close to home, the 302
driver (Metroline) tells me there is no ramp on the bus. As we are
freezing and I can do a few steps, I climb onto the bus.

On our return, we opt to take the 32 (Metroline again) north from
Kilburn as there was no Jubilee Line beyond Wembley Park.

I sat in the chair waiting for the bus. When it came, the driver did
not
offer use of the ramp and my partner struggled to push me through the
front doors. At Cricklewood Bus Garage, we were instructed to alight
and
join another bus, which was driven by the same driver. Again, there was
neither offer of a ramp or any mention of one. The same was true when
we
alighted at Burnt Oak.

Do we have to demand a ramp?
My partner looks young and fit.

I've not had this problem when my I'm out with my septuagenarian
mother.

I suspect the drivers are reluctant to deploy the ramps...

Complain to TfL? If they don't give you a satisfactory response, then try
the Disability Rights people.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

(Colin Rosenstiel)typed


I suspect the drivers are reluctant to deploy the ramps...

Complain to TfL? If they don't give you a satisfactory response, then try
the Disability Rights people.

I will. I was waiting till I could get boarding times from Oyster's
Journey History.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
I sat in the chair waiting for the bus. When it came, the driver did not
offer use of the ramp and my partner struggled to push me through the
front doors.

Taking a small tangent - I was told recently, that upon successfully
boarding a bus, a wheelchair user was confronted with a mother and pram
in the designated space. The mother indicated that she felt her needs
were greater before eventually but reluctantly giving way.

While it is true that 'mothers and prams' were not provided for in the
past, we seem to have come to the opposite extreme where the space
offered to them now (with the disabled priority proviso) is seen as an
inalienable right to be constantly exploited to the full. What passes
for a 'pram' or 'buggy' these days is nothing short of a mini,
all-terrain vehicle with a wide wheelbase and armour plating, capable of
carrying at least two children, their toys du jour, the week's shopping
and a couple of spare car batteries. More often than not, they are fully
loaded, batteries et al. ready for all eventualities like a change of
nappy or a thermonuclear war.

There is generally a sense of irresistible force meeting immovable
object when two prams compete for the same space on a bus. The resulting
diplomatic efforts, sometimes entertaining in themselves, usually block
the aisle, exit or both. Oh joy.

I can recall the days when a mother fully laden with shopping, two small
children and a pram, could, without a moment's hesitation, deftly lift
one child out of the pram and over the shoulder, fold the pram and board
the bus whilst holding the shopping and the toddler. Alas such skills
and dexterity have been lost to the world and the notion of actually
folding the modern 'pram' is now only a theoretical possibility if not
outright heresy.

ESB

Some pram-pushers are aggressively territorial :-(
We've had trouble getting through the bus, wheelchair folded, when the
aisle is blocked by a buggy-pusher. Quite often, it's difficult to
assert our needs without 'offending ethnicity'.

Few will/can fold their all-terrain buggies (though I can understand
those who don't wish to wake a sleeping babe) especially when encumbered
with loads of shopping.

My wheelchair folds flat quickly and I can transfer to an ordinary seat.
However, I weigh *much* more than a small child, so lifting into a bus
is very different to boarding with a buggy.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Ernst S Blofeld wrote:

I can recall the days when a mother fully laden with shopping, two small
children and a pram, could, without a moment's hesitation, deftly lift
one child out of the pram and over the shoulder, fold the pram and board
the bus whilst holding the shopping and the toddler.

Oh yeah? We have two year old twins - there is no way you can get them
out a
double buggy and fold it up. Also, the side by side double buggy we have
won't fit at the front of the bus, and some drivers won't let you board at
the rear doors.

E.

In message of Wed, 21 Nov 2007
09:06:47 in uk.transport.london, Helen Deborah Vecht
writes
Some pram-pushers are aggressively territorial :-(
We've had trouble getting through the bus, wheelchair folded, when the
aisle is blocked by a buggy-pusher. Quite often, it's difficult to
assert our needs without 'offending ethnicity'.

Few will/can fold their all-terrain buggies (though I can understand
those who don't wish to wake a sleeping babe) especially when encumbered
with loads of shopping.

My wheelchair folds flat quickly and I can transfer to an ordinary seat.
However, I weigh *much* more than a small child, so lifting into a bus
is very different to boarding with a buggy.


I am outraged by your treatment and trust you will complain.
Unfortunately, you will probably get no more than a facile apology.

The following from
www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/Getting_around_London.pdf may help:
"All of London's 8,000 buses are now low-floor, wheelchair accessible
vehicles. The ramps on all buses must be in full working order at all
times. Any bus with a defective ramp is taken out of service, so you are
assured of full accessibility at all times." Please assert YOUR rights;
MY council tax pays for them.

The following from
www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/conditions-of-carriage-07-sept.pdf
seems relevant: "13.2.2. Wheelchair users have priority over everyone
else for use of the wheelchair space, since this
is the only place in which they can travel safely. If someone in a
wheelchair wishes to board, and the wheelchair space is occupied by
standing passengers or buggies, standing passengers will be asked by the
driver to make room if possible, and buggy users will be asked to fold
them and put them in the luggage space or keep them by their side."

PLEASE tool yourself to get your rights. I may need those rights and
your work will help. When I board an underground train and see someone
in severe need of a seat, I find the following, spoken loudly, works: "A
lady/gentleman needs a seat here!". Murphy's Law means the person often
refuses the seat because he/she is leaving at the next station. Murphy
also causes some people to offer me a seat on assessing my age and
fitness.
--
Walter Briscoe

In message of Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:06:00
in uk.transport.london, eastender writes
Ernst S Blofeld wrote:

I can recall the days when a mother fully laden with shopping, two small
children and a pram, could, without a moment's hesitation, deftly lift
one child out of the pram and over the shoulder, fold the pram and board
the bus whilst holding the shopping and the toddler.

Oh yeah? We have two year old twins - there is no way you can get them
out a
double buggy and fold it up. Also, the side by side double buggy we have
won't fit at the front of the bus, and some drivers won't let you board at
the rear doors.

E.

I suggest your technology may be inappropriate.

You may find the following helpful from
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/conditions-of-carriage-07-sept.pdf
"13.2.5. If you are using a double buggy you can board through the
centre doors of a dual-door bus but, before doing so, you must first get
permission from the bus driver. If you have not already done so, you
must immediately go to the front of the bus after boarding to show your
ticket or pass, touch your Oyster card on the yellow card reader or to
pay your fare."

I never had your need when my children were young - 2 30 months apart -
but do not recall taking a buggy on public transport with one adult.
Buses only catered for able-bodied passengers 18 years ago.
--
Walter Briscoe