There is (or maybe was) a project to lower the floors of new tube
stock and/or maybe only the trailers of existing stock by redesign and
fitting smaller wheels - only fitting smaller wheels in the case of existing
stock - to allow wheelchair access, and much more commerically important,
though with no legal need, to make it easier to use children's pushchairs and
shopping trolleys.

There has been silence on this lately. What has happened?

In new stock it would also allow the ceiling to be raised, which
would be a good idea for tall men. I am 6ft and the coaches are tight for
me, and there are many much taller than me, and we must expect the number
to grow.

It is also going to be hard work to raise platforms, there is the
building work itself, and to keep slopes from getting too steep, it may be
necessary to raise passageway roofs - very messy, expensive and disruptive.

All in all, lowering the floors of the coaches looks an attractive
option.


If I may get off the heavy stuff for a while:

Whem my little ones were 3 & 7 I took them to London, and we went
about on the tube. When we got back I overheard them talking about "the pipe
trains".

It shows the other meanings of words that we adults don't see.


Michael Bell

--

Michael Bell wrote:
There is (or maybe was) a project to lower the floors of new tube
stock and/or maybe only the trailers of existing stock by redesign
and
fitting smaller wheels - only fitting smaller wheels in the case of
existing
stock - to allow wheelchair access, and much more commerically
important,
though with no legal need, to make it easier to use children's
pushchairs and
shopping trolleys.

Can't see how they'd do it. Theres little enough room under the floors
for
the equipment as it is. Also , what happens at stations where the
platform
is already at the level of or higher than the trains floor such as the
new
section of the jubilee line , the bakerloo north of queens park, some
on the
piccadily etc..?

B2003

In article .com, Boltar
wrote:

Michael Bell wrote:
There is (or maybe was) a project to lower the floors of new tube stock
and/or maybe only the trailers of existing stock by redesign and fitting
smaller wheels - only fitting smaller wheels in the case of existing
stock - to allow wheelchair access, and much more commerically important,
though with no legal need, to make it easier to use children's pushchairs
and shopping trolleys.

Can't see how they'd do it. Theres little enough room under the floors for
the equipment as it is.

I've seen drawings of the proposals. I must look for the book I saw it in.
If you do this only on trailer cars, smaller wheels are not a problem. It
would be quite enough for wheelchair, pushchair and shopping trolley access
to have only half the vehicles with platform-level floors, and well
distributed along the length of the train. But the plan was for the WHOLE
train be lowered in new stock.

Also , what happens at stations where the platform is already at the level
of or higher than the trains floor such as the new section of the jubilee
line , the bakerloo north of queens park, some on the piccadily etc..?

Ah yes. There is indeed a problem. But you notice that after a burst of
enthusiasm for raised platforms, things have gone quiet. Second thoughts?
Investigations into other possibilities?

Michael Bell

--

"Michael Bell" wrote in message
...
In article .com, Boltar
wrote:

Michael Bell wrote:
There is (or maybe was) a project to lower the floors of new tube stock
and/or maybe only the trailers of existing stock by redesign and
fitting
smaller wheels - only fitting smaller wheels in the case of existing
stock - to allow wheelchair access, and much more commerically
important,
though with no legal need, to make it easier to use children's
pushchairs
and shopping trolleys.

Can't see how they'd do it. Theres little enough room under the floors
for
the equipment as it is.

I've seen drawings of the proposals. I must look for the book I saw it in.
If you do this only on trailer cars, smaller wheels are not a problem. It
would be quite enough for wheelchair, pushchair and shopping trolley
access
to have only half the vehicles with platform-level floors, and well
distributed along the length of the train. But the plan was for the WHOLE
train be lowered in new stock.

Also , what happens at stations where the platform is already at the
level
of or higher than the trains floor such as the new section of the jubilee
line , the bakerloo north of queens park, some on the piccadily etc..?

Ah yes. There is indeed a problem. But you notice that after a burst of
enthusiasm for raised platforms, things have gone quiet. Second thoughts?
Investigations into other possibilities?


Or alternatively, an appraisal of the system followed by an understanding of
the possibilities?

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:15:34 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:


"Michael Bell" wrote in message
.. .
In article .com, Boltar
wrote:

Michael Bell wrote:
There is (or maybe was) a project to lower the floors of new tube stock
and/or maybe only the trailers of existing stock by redesign and
fitting
smaller wheels - only fitting smaller wheels in the case of existing
stock - to allow wheelchair access, and much more commerically
important,
though with no legal need, to make it easier to use children's
pushchairs
and shopping trolleys.

Can't see how they'd do it. Theres little enough room under the floors
for
the equipment as it is.

I've seen drawings of the proposals. I must look for the book I saw it in.
If you do this only on trailer cars, smaller wheels are not a problem. It
would be quite enough for wheelchair, pushchair and shopping trolley
access
to have only half the vehicles with platform-level floors, and well
distributed along the length of the train. But the plan was for the WHOLE
train be lowered in new stock.

Also , what happens at stations where the platform is already at the
level
of or higher than the trains floor such as the new section of the jubilee
line , the bakerloo north of queens park, some on the piccadily etc..?

Ah yes. There is indeed a problem. But you notice that after a burst of
enthusiasm for raised platforms, things have gone quiet. Second thoughts?
Investigations into other possibilities?


Or alternatively, an appraisal of the system followed by an understanding of
the possibilities?


The only option would make the platforms level with the train doors,
instead of stepping up or stepping down. If you look at the tube
system in Toronto, Canada (Metropolitan Line type stock), the
platforms are level with the train doors and floors to enable
wheelchair users to roll on and off. That is why the tube stock and
surface stock in London needs to have the platforms raised to be level
with the train doors and floors to enable wheelchair users to roll on
and off.

Lowering the floor on the tube stock and using smaller wheels is dumb,
unrealistic and unworkable.

Zermut

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:44:47 -0500, Zermut
wrote:

Lowering the floor on the tube stock and using smaller wheels is dumb,
unrealistic and unworkable.

Why? Low-floor multiple units operate throughout Europe - some with
floors as low as a foot or so above rail level. Even the low-floor
bus is a recent invention (last 10 years or so).

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

The only option would make the platforms level with the train doors,
instead of stepping up or stepping down. If you look at the tube
system in Toronto, Canada (Metropolitan Line type stock), the
platforms are level with the train doors and floors to enable
wheelchair users to roll on and off.

Actually, the platforms in Toronto are level with the train floors
because once you're going to have high platforms at all, that's the
obvious way to do it. They've been like that since the subway opened
in 1954, long before wheelchair access was considered an issue.

I've never understood why it was considered acceptable in London to
do it otherwise (except where tube and subsurface stock share the same
platform face, of course). Even if train floor heights have changed
over the years, it should have been possible to raise either the
platform level or the track level as appropriate to restore proper
alignment... one would think.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Men! Give them enough rope and they'll dig
| their own grave." -- EARTH GIRLS ARE EASY

Zermut wrote:
wrote:
"Michael Bell" wrote...
Boltar wrote:
Michael Bell wrote:

There is (or maybe was) a project to lower the floors of new tube
stock and/or maybe only the trailers of existing stock by redesign
and fitting smaller wheels - only fitting smaller wheels in the case
of existing stock - to allow wheelchair access, and much more
commerically important, though with no legal need, to make it easier
to use children's pushchairs and shopping trolleys.

Can't see how they'd do it. Theres little enough room under the floors
for the equipment as it is.

For new stock it shouldn't be too hard - power electronic equipment is
continually getting smaller, and the possibility of articulated trains
provides more opportunities. The existing stock is an example of very
bad design - the Northern line trains have HIGHER floors than the stock
they replace, and yet the seats are nowhere near the walls, so capacity
is limited.

I've seen drawings of the proposals. I must look for the book I saw it
in. If you do this only on trailer cars, smaller wheels are not a
problem. It would be quite enough for wheelchair, pushchair and
shopping trolley access to have only half the vehicles with
platform-level floors, and well distributed along the length of the
train. But the plan was for the WHOLE train be lowered in new stock.

ITYM lower. To be lowered they would have to have high floors first!

Also , what happens at stations where the platform is already at the
level of or higher than the trains floor such as the new section of
the jubilee line , the bakerloo north of queens park, some on the
piccadily etc..?

Ah yes. There is indeed a problem.

No it isn't! There's no rule that says all lines must use stock of the
same floor height. Jubilee and Piccadilly trains would have higher
floors than Victoria Line trains etc.

There's only a problem where trains of different floor height use the
same platforms: Rayners Lane to Uxbridge, and the Bakerloo beyond QP.

But you notice that after a burst of
enthusiasm for raised platforms, things have gone quiet. Second thoughts?
Investigations into other possibilities?

Or alternatively, an appraisal of the system followed by an understanding of
the possibilities?

The only option would make the platforms level with the train doors,
instead of stepping up or stepping down. If you look at the tube
system in Toronto, Canada (Metropolitan Line type stock), the
platforms are level with the train doors and floors to enable
wheelchair users to roll on and off. That is why the tube stock and
surface stock in London needs to have the platforms raised to be level
with the train doors and floors to enable wheelchair users to roll on
and off.

And you can do that on every station at the DLR and a few on the Tube,
but extending this to the whole Tube network would not be so easy. The
trouble is that making it level would not make it RORO - there's this
big gap to mind...

Lowering the floor on the tube stock and using smaller wheels is dumb,
unrealistic and unworkable.

Do you have proof it can't be done? I suspect it can't, but your claim
is meaningless without evidence.

"Michael Bell" wrote in message
...

Whem my little ones were 3 & 7 I took them to London, and we went
about on the tube. When we got back I overheard them talking about "the
pipe
trains".

It shows the other meanings of words that we adults don't see.


Amongst Undergroound staff the single track tube tunnels are known as "the
pipe".

New Vic line trains will have smaller wheels....the disabled acces wasn't a
reason though....makes it bigger inside.

"Brimstone" wrote in message
...

"Michael Bell" wrote in message
...

Whem my little ones were 3 & 7 I took them to London, and we went
about on the tube. When we got back I overheard them talking about "the
pipe
trains".

It shows the other meanings of words that we adults don't see.


Amongst Undergroound staff the single track tube tunnels are known as "the
pipe".